[CoG] Legacy of Zagolth

[Despain]

The story is flawed from your perspective. On my end, I found nothing wrong with the story so far.

I didn't mean to say the story was flawed (just like i pointed out bigger problems than just typos). I was exagerating to make a point.

The problem with the whole MAGIC DARK LORD thing isn't that it's here in the story. It's that I expect more. The introduction is a FANTASTIC setup for something that seems very promising. I expect originality and a lot of flavor because of its strength. The dark lord magic stuff just seems to be a serious let-down after such an impressive introduction.

This section doesn't last that long in retrospect. When making it, I imagined it as a sort of cutscene while doing taks in between, like Quintesssence.

Quntessence isn't the best game to model yours after. Although already your game is MUCH better than Quintessence.

It might be stronger to turn it into an actual cutscene, rather than have trivial quests like feeding your dog. I know you're not going to want to go back and delete that stuff, but sit back and think about what is best for the game as a whole. The reason I quit the game there was because of pacing -- that scene TOTALLY KILLS THE PACING OF YOUR GAME.

The introduction and beginning was incredibly strong and beautifully paced with action. Not many games get a good grasp of this. Keeping up that same pace throughout the rest of the ame will be difficult, but doing so will be seriously rewarding with an entertaining and fun experience. Your whole village sequence just stops the action dead in its tracks. Trust me, the player doesn't care about feeding the dog.

Think about what's absolutely vital from that scene, turn it into a cutscene, and lose the rest. It will suck to lose the work you put into it, but as a whole the game will benefit from it, I think.

 

[HarryE]

This section doesn't last that long in retrospect. When making it, I imagined it as a sort of cutscene while doing taks in between, like Quintesssence.

Quntessence isn't the best game to model yours after. Although already your game is MUCH better than Quintessence.

It might be stronger to turn it into an actual cutscene, rather than have trivial quests like feeding your dog. I know you're not going to want to go back and delete that stuff, but sit back and think about what is best for the game as a whole. The reason I quit the game there was because of pacing -- that scene TOTALLY KILLS THE PACING OF YOUR GAME.

The introduction and beginning was incredibly strong and beautifully paced with action. Not many games get a good grasp of this. Keeping up that same pace throughout the rest of the ame will be difficult, but doing so will be seriously rewarding with an entertaining and fun experience. Your whole village sequence just stops the action dead in its tracks. Trust me, the player doesn't care about feeding the dog.

Think about what's absolutely vital from that scene, turn it into a cutscene, and lose the rest. It will suck to lose the work you put into it, but as a whole the game will benefit from it, I think.

Although I do see what you mean, it is somewhat intentional. It shows Dejack's comfortable life before he goes into the army. Specifically, feeding the dog is quite important for that section of the game cause it demonstrates Anna's feelings for Dejack and it builds her character. She can't talk to him because he's too shy, and so she does the kindest thing she can think of, lending him some money.

I suppose the drawer moving quest could go. I knew I shouldn't of put that in.

 

[Doctor]

I disagree. He could have had a kidnapped princess in there and I still wouldn't have felt let down. It's how he handles the thing. You've seen the Dark Lord for two minutes and decided that it was unoriginal, but for all you know Zalgoth just acts as a McGuffin to drive the story along and isn't even a focal point in the whole thing. I just don't think you can make an opinion about something so fast.

And Bruno, keep the damn drawer moving quest. Not everything has to be action-packed-sonic-the hedgehog-on-crack fast. I enjoyed the nice and tranquil moment before everything turns to crap for the hero.

 

[HarryE]

I disagree. He could have had a kidnapped princess in there and I still wouldn't have felt let down. It's how he handles the thing. You've seen the Dark Lord for two minutes and decided that it was unoriginal, but for all you know Zalgoth just acts as a McGuffin to drive the story along and isn't even a focal point in the whole thing. I just don't think you can make an opinion about something so fast.

This is true. The mere fact he exists causes the narrative of the story, not him himself. It's all about the quest fron ensues from it.

And Bruno, keep the damn drawer moving quest. Not everything has to be action-packed-sonic-the hedgehog-on-crack fast. I enjoyed the nice and tranquil moment before everything turns to crap for the hero.

Hrmm... I think all the other things, like elevenses, food for Rocko, are already carrying the weight for that, though. On reflection, I think the drawers things was largely pointless.

 

[Link in Pink]

I agree with the Doctor. You can't have everything action-packed and have no developed characters. The whole bit with Dejack in the past was for story and character development, and it made some plot points come together, such as why he joined the army in the first place. If that whole bit had not been in the game, Dejack would have just been some guy in the army doing his job. There would be no deep reason behind it.

It also provided me with some questions that make me anticipate answers in the future, such as what will become of Anna. He incorporated all of these elements into his game beautifully. Oh and by the by, I felt the action picking up when you get assigned to the Armadro mission. ;D

Anyway that's my two cents. I'm no reviewer, just felt like saying something. ^o^

 

[Despain]

Doctor I don't know how you can pride your reviews when you're not critical. That's sort of a key factor.

 

[HarryE]

Doctor I don't know how you can pride your reviews when you're not critical. That's sort of a key factor.

Wrong. The key factor is knowing where to be critical.

 

[Despain]

And Bruno, keep the damn drawer moving quest. Not everything has to be action-packed-sonic-the hedgehog-on-crack fast. I enjoyed the nice and tranquil moment before everything turns to crap for the hero.

And that's where he should be critical. Especially if you admitted yourself that that part was slow.

If it doesn't add anything to the game that matters, cut it. That's a serious rule when it comes to revising anything. Hemmingway once said that his best advice to beginning writers is to CUT THE FIRST TEN PAGES.

One of the most important skills a storyteller (in any medium, be it prose, film, games or whatever) can have is to see the difference between filler and areas with a clear purpose, and the willingness to cut the filler.

 

[Despain]

ok part two

i have thirty gold in my inventory... just spend 40 of it on a newspaper. is dejack THAT MUCH of an asshole where he's lying to try and get free dog food?

i'm looking for people to invite to this fucking party. this is stupid. not only is this horribly boring and pointless quest, but i can't even find everyone. oh there he is. the last little faggot is not even in the town. i just don't get the POINT. can you please tell me WHY THIS WAS HERE? WHY DID I DO THIS? ok and this is getting stupid. i go back and "lol i lied maybe they'e NOT ALL INSIDE. go check out the waterfall" and she's not even THERE near the waterfall. this entire sequence needs to go. it is FRUSTRATING and it's even MORE FURSTRATING because it HAS NO POINT TO IT

oh wait. THERE SHE IS. by the OTHER WATERFALL THAT IS HARD TO GET TO. i spent seriously waaaaay too much time looking for this stupid chick. "nobody can see me here". you can say that again. i was totally hoping she'd fall off the log.

love how he TOTALLY JUST ABANDONS HER to go chase his dog

BBBRORORORORORINGNNGNNGNGN BORING fucking hell boring. man all that conversation about this scene was right. it's boring and very little of it advances the story. let's see, i feed my dog, i buy an axe and chop down a tree, i climb down a couple of wells, i MOVE SOME CHICKS FURNITURE, i  have to GATHER PEOPLE FOR A PARTY, go to some chikcs house and get a cake????? dvvddfvfdsa d. totally boring and totally poitnless quests here. they seem like they're only purpose is to make the game longer. SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY consider cutting this down to what matters.

here I'll even help you. this entire section could be cut down to this: dejack and zack talk about joining army. zack gets killed. dejack signs up.

that's it. that's all that entire section is worth. unless anna comes back later on. if she does (and if she does i assume she'll be pissed at him for just LEAVING HER and joining the army), then throw the scene with her on the dock back in there, and how dejack leaves her. that's all we need. SO MUCH of that other stuff was filler that it was seriouslt disgusting and just bogged down the entire story. by the time i got back to the main timeline i had forgotten most of what had happened. you THINK you need some of that to show character, but you need it a lot less than you realize. you THINK the elevenses scene matters because it says how zack and dejack and anna grew up together. that can be condensed to a single line within another scene between zack and dejack. you THINK you need the dog food scene because it shows anna being cute and lending dejack money. in reality that scene does n othing more than make the player confused (since you have the money in your inventory). you THINK you need the party invitation scene because... well i don't even know WHY you would think you need that. it's just a massive waste of time.

especially if this is in the context of telling a story to a judge. the judge really wouldn't give a shit about OH HEY SO THEN I WENT TO THIS LADYS HOUSE AND GRABBED THE CAKE

OKAY back to the ACTUAL GAME (at last)

yeah man the font is starting to get really annoying. especially in these lighter-colored scenes. it the window wasnt so transparent it would be easier to read it i think. but seriously consider maybe just making the font BIGGER.

one of the lines that the captain says is cut off, when they're speaking outside the courthouse.

this is a long conversation, i would like some music or SOMETHING. it's boring enough on its own.

there's part that shows Dejack's name and face when I think that the captain is supposed to be talking. "the reach of the pirates is long etc etc"

this long-ass OBJECTIVES, TRAVEL, etc is waaay too long and boring and confusing to remember. I hope that it is easier than thios because it sounds intimidating and simply unpleasant. the MAP is much better. I think things would be much easier if all three of those options (objectives, travel and map) were allexplained at once with the map in the background. it would be far less intimidating for the player (with too much information the player feels the need to try and remember it all, things should be grokkable and the map helps that).

in addition, the world map should be accessible from your inventory (i later buy a map at the general store but its not the same map that the captain showed). it would be eally nice to check where you are once in a while. it's a really easy common event to just show a map and have a cursor showing where you are on it. DEFINITELY think about doing this, it will be a huge help to players.

in this city there's a well with a rope. i can't go down it. should i be able to?

passability problem. on the map with the broken ferry, there are a bunch of boxes and stuff. i can walk on the top of the taller boxes.

lol "flat" british language is so laughable. trying to ignore it man.

in the house with the kobolds, you have a choice when talking to the one upstairs. the window is cut of the edge of the screen.

yessss VISBIBLE ENCOUNTERS. thank god, if this game had random encounters i don't think i'd keep going.

first battle is against three bees. they kick my ass and i have like 10hp by the time i beat them all. i mean the battle is over quickly but they do a LOT of damage. i guess it's ok if there aren't many battles and they are spread out, since i have enough items and skills and stuff to heal in between.

the uppercut skill is no better than his default attack :\

i died to a kobold party. the enemies are SERIOUSLY OVERPOWERED or maybe your hero simply HAS SHIT for HP. as usual when i die with a game i have no desire to keep playing.

by this point it was falling into "generic rpg maker game" stuff anyway. you started out VERY STRONG with the beginning dungeon area, then dipped REALLY LOW with the flachback sequence, and then you stayed low with the "wandr the fields and fight random badguys" shit.

i was expecting a lot more, man. it seems almost as if you got lazy after the fantastic beginning.

 

[HarryE]

i have thirty gold in my inventory... just spend 40 of it on a newspaper. is dejack THAT MUCH of an asshole where he's lying to try and get free dog food?

Hang on, where did you get the gold from?

i'm looking for people to invite to this fucking party. this is stupid. not only is this horribly boring and pointless quest, but i can't even find everyone. oh there he is. the last little faggot is not even in the town. i just don't get the POINT. can you please tell me WHY THIS WAS HERE? WHY DID I DO THIS? ok and this is getting stupid. i go back and "lol i lied maybe they'e NOT ALL INSIDE. go check out the waterfall" and she's not even THERE near the waterfall. this entire sequence needs to go. it is FRUSTRATING and it's even MORE FURSTRATING because it HAS NO POINT TO IT

Right now, I feel I should say "I disagree," but that might piss you off more.

oh wait. THERE SHE IS. by the OTHER WATERFALL THAT IS HARD TO GET TO. i spent seriously waaaaay too much time looking for this stupid chick. "nobody can see me here". you can say that again. i was totally hoping she'd fall off the log.

love how he TOTALLY JUST ABANDONS HER to go chase his dog

When he left the bench he thought all he thought he was going to do was say be quiet. He didn't know his dog was going to run off.

BBBRORORORORORINGNNGNNGNGN BORING fucking hell boring. man all that conversation about this scene was right. it's boring and very little of it advances the story. let's see, i feed my dog, i buy an axe and chop down a tree, i climb down a couple of wells, i MOVE SOME CHICKS FURNITURE, i  have to GATHER PEOPLE FOR A PARTY, go to some chikcs house and get a cake????? dvvddfvfdsa d. totally boring and totally poitnless quests here. they seem like they're only purpose is to make the game longer. SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY consider cutting this down to what matters.

Again I disagree. This section is all about the narrative, which is the point you're just deciding to completely ignore.

here I'll even help you. this entire section could be cut down to this: dejack and zack talk about joining army. zack gets killed. dejack signs up.

Worst. Idea. Ever. You're starting to piss me off, now. How, after one little scene will the player feel any empathy for Zack's death? (I know you wouldn't, either way) I didn't just slap this section in here because I was bored. There is a reason it's all there which I suppose is just lost on you.

that's it. that's all that entire section is worth. unless anna comes back later on. if she does (and if she does i assume she'll be pissed at him for just LEAVING HER and joining the army),

NOW you're thinking. And for your information, yes, Anna will come back.

then throw the scene with her on the dock back in there, and how dejack leaves her. that's all we need. SO MUCH of that other stuff was filler that it was seriouslt disgusting and just bogged down the entire story. by the time i got back to the main timeline i had forgotten most of what had happened. you THINK you need some of that to show character, but you need it a lot less than you realize. you THINK the elevenses scene matters because it says how zack and dejack and anna grew up together. that can be condensed to a single line within another scene between zack and dejack. you THINK you need the dog food scene because it shows anna being cute and lending dejack money. in reality that scene does n othing more than make the player confused (since you have the money in your inventory). you THINK you need the party invitation scene because... well i don't even know WHY you would think you need that. it's just a massive waste of time.

No, it makes YOU confused. Besides, I don't see what the hell is confusing about this section? This is probably the most narrativley linear section of the game.

And in terms of forgetting what went on. That's what the next two scenes are for in the courthouse and outside with Captain Antonio. Somehow, I get the feeling that you saw us go back to the present, and THEN wrote all this down before the next line was said.

especially if this is in the context of telling a story to a judge. the judge really wouldn't give a shit about OH HEY SO THEN I WENT TO THIS LADYS HOUSE AND GRABBED THE CAKE

Oh, for-- Read between the lines would you? Of course Dejack didn't do all that. I was demonstrating that sequence for the players.

yeah man the font is starting to get really annoying. especially in these lighter-colored scenes. it the window wasnt so transparent it would be easier to read it i think. but seriously consider maybe just making the font BIGGER.

Okay, I'll think about it after I see what other people have said.

one of the lines that the captain says is cut off, when they're speaking outside the courthouse.

Thanks, fixed.

Thanks, this is a long conversation, i would like some music or SOMETHING. it's boring enough on its own.

Okay, sure. I can do that.

there's part that shows Dejack's name and face when I think that the captain is supposed to be talking. "the reach of the pirates is long etc etc"

Thanks, fixed again.

this long-ass OBJECTIVES, TRAVEL, etc is waaay too long and boring and confusing to remember. I hope that it is easier than thios because it sounds intimidating and simply unpleasant. the MAP is much better. I think things would be much easier if all three of those options (objectives, travel and map) were allexplained at once with the map in the background. it would be far less intimidating for the player (with too much information the player feels the need to try and remember it all, things should be grokkable and the map helps that).

All that stuff is baisically reiterating the same information.

in addition, the world map should be accessible from your inventory (i later buy a map at the general store but its not the same map that the captain showed). it would be eally nice to check where you are once in a while. it's a really easy common event to just show a map and have a cursor showing where you are on it. DEFINITELY think about doing this, it will be a huge help to players.

Thanks, I will. In the meantime, there are signposts if you get lost.

in this city there's a well with a rope. i can't go down it. should i be able to?

I swear I remember not putting a rope there, but there you go. Oh well, thanks.

passability problem. on the map with the broken ferry, there are a bunch of boxes and stuff. i can walk on the top of the taller boxes.

Fixed

lol "flat" british language is so laughable. trying to ignore it man.

AGAIN. It's not a big deal. It's one little fucking word. Get over it.

in the house with the kobolds, you have a choice when talking to the one upstairs. the window is cut of the edge of the screen.

Fixed.

first battle is against three bees. they kick my ass and i have like 10hp by the time i beat them all. i mean the battle is over quickly but they do a LOT of damage. i guess it's ok if there aren't many battles and they are spread out, since i have enough items and skills and stuff to heal in between.

If you'd levelled up a bit in the first Dungeon, you'd have Dejack's healing skill.

the uppercut skill is no better than his default attack :\

I think you'll find it is.

i died to a kobold party. the enemies are SERIOUSLY OVERPOWERED or maybe your hero simply HAS SHIT for HP. as usual when i die with a game i have no desire to keep playing.

Dejack learns a healing skill. Get that and you'll be fine.

by this point it was falling into "generic rpg maker game" stuff anyway. you started out VERY STRONG with the beginning dungeon area, then dipped REALLY LOW with the flachback sequence, and then you stayed low with the "wandr the fields and fight random badguys" shit.

i was expecting a lot more, man. it seems almost as if you got lazy after the fantastic beginning.

Lazy? Fuck that. Would you like to see all the code I had to make for those overworld enemys? Do you have any idea how long it took me to plan all the sizes and paths for all the continents?


You know what? Just stop playing this game. If you hate it that much, don't bother. Okay? Good with me, because you just can't please everyone. Just try and think about what you say before you go chucking shit about, okay?

 

[Doctor]

And Bruno, keep the damn drawer moving quest. Not everything has to be action-packed-sonic-the hedgehog-on-crack fast. I enjoyed the nice and tranquil moment before everything turns to crap for the hero.

And that's where he should be critical. Especially if you admitted yourself that that part was slow.

I also said I liked the tranquil pace of that part.

Doctor I don't know how you can pride your reviews when you're not critical. That's sort of a key factor.

Don't you dare. I'm critical of what is wrong and I encourage what is good. You're overly critical of every little thing that you just happen to not like, which is A FUCKING LOT. Maybe you do have higher standards than I do, but with such high standards, I don't see how you could enjoy any sort of RPGs.

 

[HarryE]

Don't you dare. I'm critical of what is wrong and I encourage what is good. You're overly critical of every little thing that you just happen to not like, which is A FUCKING LOT. Maybe you do have higher standards than I do, but with such high standards, I don't see how you could enjoy any sort of RPGs.

Hah! Well said, Doc!

 

[Reives]

Having high standard is one thing, egocentrism is another. The prior is fine, the latter is always laughable. Just throwing the concept out there.

 

[ImmuneEntity]

Don't be mistaken. You have a great game going here. Sure it isn't perfect, but it is much better than the majority of the games that have been posted on these forums. And good job on that. Keep up the good work.

 

[Fayte]

Well. I haven't played your game (and I won't simply because I don't like the default battle system) but from what I've read it seems like you have something good going on here. BUT from reading missy no's post, I can full on agree that some of those "tasks" sound very boring regardless of the story. Good luck with this though.

 

[Despain]

Hang on, where did you get the gold from?

I have no idea. Probably in chests or something? I just know it was there.

Again I disagree. This section is all about the narrative, which is the point you're just deciding to completely ignore.

If it's about narrative then why did I spend fifteen minutes gathering people for a party? I'm not saying cut the whole scene-- it's clear why it's there. I'm saying that a lot of it is entirely unnecessary.

Oh, for-- Read between the lines would you? Of course Dejack didn't do all that. I was demonstrating that sequence for the players.

The players don't care, though. Seriously, does going to get a cake really add so much more to the story? It's little things that waste the players time.

When he left the bench he thought all he thought he was going to do was say be quiet. He didn't know his dog was going to run off.

Yeah, I get this. I liked it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

How, after one little scene will the player feel any empathy for Zack's death? (I know you wouldn't, either way) I didn't just slap this section in here because I was bored. There is a reason it's all there which I suppose is just lost on you.

Don't underestimate the reader/player. And don't underestimate me.

I felt the death, and I believe that the death scene was nicely done. The foreshadowing in the earlier flashback was FANTASTIC. It gives the "I know that Zack's going to be killed and I don't want it to happen" factor (the same factor that so many people get hard-ons about Romeo and Juliet for). I want you to KEEP the scenes with Zack and cut the FAT from it. Maybe it's my fault for not being clear (I just pasted my notes after all, I didn't type up anything else).

But the way I see it, the section has two major points: to show Zack's death/Dejack's joining the military and to introduce Anna for a later story reason. Am I wrong?

Because tell me, does cutting that tree to get that one Revive really impact the story later? Does feeding your dog matter when you're fighting an army of hogs twenty years in the future? Does it really matter that Dejack went out of his way to get a cake? The answer is no. Unless you have some totally crazy plot reasons planned out for this (and if you do I would LOVE to hear them), then this stuff is just filler. And your game is good enough that you don't need filler.

All that stuff is baisically reiterating the same information.

Exactly. You don't really want to do that if you don't have to.

AGAIN. It's not a big deal. It's one little fucking word. Get over it.

I was joking. I tend to make light of my own "anti-england" gimmick. You'd have to know me to get it.

If you'd levelled up a bit in the first Dungeon, you'd have Dejack's healing skill.

I do have Dejack's healing skill. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that it's TOO HARD, but that they are very strong and it might be overwhelming for some players. I used his sill and healed up after each battle. In most games, though, that kind of healing shouldn't be necessary after little nobody battles.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. If that's the style of your game then it helps you stand out. It's just something that I made a note of, and it might make balancing a bit awkward later on when you have a full party.

Lazy? Fuck that.

Maybe I should use a different word: maybe "rushed" or "hurried". Or perhaps "uninspired". I'm not saying that it's BAD at all. It's better than most RMXP games.

I'm saying that the beginning of your game was SO GOOD that the rest seems bland in comparison. Dude, I'm NOT INSULTING YOU HERE. I'm telling you that your game starts out VERY STRONG and as it goes on it's only ABOVE AVERAGE. I can't see how tht would offend you.

Would you like to see all the code I had to make for those overworld enemys? Do you have any idea how long it took me to plan all the sizes and paths for all the continents?

I don't need to see your code and I'm certainly aware of the amount of work that goes into this stuff. I've been doing this sort of thing for an incredibly long time, my friend. I know what I'm talking about and I know how hard you're working on this.

You know what? Just stop playing this game. If you hate it that much, don't bother. Okay? Good with me, because you just can't please everyone. Just try and think about what you say before you go chucking shit about, okay?

What? I never said that I hated your game. I've stated multiple times that I think it's damn good. It's because of this that I am being so critical.

Your attitude here is insulting. I'm putting a lot of time into helping you. Don't attack me for this. I'm giving you solid and incredibly constructive feedback here. This is the kind of feedback that a lot of people would beg for. Come on. I chose to play this game because you seem like a cool guy who was open to feedback.

Believe it or not, I'm being rough because I want to help you make the best game that you can. I see incrdible potential here and I want to see it come to life. I'm not going to be nice and I'm not going to sugarcoat things, because I am one of those people that fully believe that to get better you have to push yourself beyond your limits.

Please don't insult me for playing your game. It shows a lot of ignorance on your part and makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

Don't you dare. I'm critical of what is wrong and I encourage what is good. You're overly critical of every little thing that you just happen to not like, which is A FUCKING LOT. Maybe you do have higher standards than I do, but with such high standards, I don't see how you could enjoy any sort of RPGs.

I have tremendously high standards. I'm not asking that they be met, but I'm asking that they be considered and hoping that they are at least touched on. I don't settle for "good enough". I'm not writing a review here. If I was writing a review, it would be incredibly positive, more like yours (though a bit less circle-jerkish). I'm giving the author feedback on how to improve his work. I'm not writing these things with the intent to show off or promote anything, I want to help make this game the best that it can.

And I very rarely enjoy RPGs, so if that was meant to be an insult or something I don't get it.

Having high standard is one thing, egocentrism is another.

Where was I egocentric? I never once said "sandfall doesn't do this" or "in my game i handle things like this". I'm giving him suggestions based entirely around what I see here.

Don't be mistaken. You have a great game going here. Sure it isn't perfect, but it is much better than the majority of the games that have been posted on these forums. And good job on that. Keep up the good work.

This is exactly the kind of post that I would have made if I didn't take the time to type notes and post them up for you. It's entirely true.

Bruno, your game is GOOD. I can't say it enough. Don't misunderstand what I'm doing here. I'm not attacking you or telling you that your game is bad. I'm telling you how to improve it.

Take an hour or two and just cut down that scene and see what happens. I guarantee that you can improve on it by cutting out some of the filler. Copy the project into another file and screw with that one if you're afraid of losing anything. I understand the reluctance to cut anything. You've put a lot of work into this.

But think about what's best for the game as a whole.

That's what I'm doing.

 

[Reives]

Now, please don't take this the wrong way. I don't intend any personal offense by this. Either way, I'll be embracing for punches.

Every time something like this happens, the same "I did nothing wrong" comes up with the exact same sympathetic tone.

I'm giving you solid and incredibly constructive feedback here.

BBBRORORORORORINGNNGNNGNGN BORING fucking hell boring.

the enemies are SERIOUSLY OVERPOWERED or maybe your hero simply HAS SHIT for HP  as usual when i die with a game i have no desire to keep playing.

i'm looking for people to invite to this fucking party. this is stupid. not only is this horribly boring and pointless quest, but i can't even find everyone.

Yes, it is partially constructive in the way that it points out why you feel it is boring so the author knows where to fix. Yes, this is not a circle jerk board.

But news flash, a constructive criticism involves its presentation, as well.

If you are trying to help someone, it is a no brainer to see that such a presentation has nothing but negative effect to add. It may seem fairly fuzzy to see from a third person perspective, but people tend to be affected by the grease they add when it comes to something they've been dedicated to - evidentally, in more than one cases. People respond the way they do for a reason, and "criticism" isn't an automatic justice label.


I have a sincere criticism for your criticisms, and please take this with good nature:

Cut away the grease and dirt. They are fillers to what could've been a great help to keep the author on their toes, fix the stir-ups, and fill them with motivation to keep going at the same time. These extra grease and wrinkles add NO POINT to the criticism, other than to piss off the author as it is human nature to take things involving what they've been dedicated to sensitively.


Again, I mean this post with sincerity, and I believe I speak for many of us in the present and past. It is, of course, your right to stick with certain persona; but in return, it is also everyone else's right to react to it in the corresponding way as they have.


Thank you.

 

[Volrath]

I'm not quite finished yet (this is a lot longer than 90 minutes  :wink, but I think I've seen enough to give a breakdown.

Wow, dude. This is seriously awesome. I remember when ArtBane and I played that amazing GA assignment about the guy exploring the creepy town. It was so well done, I always knew that if you made a full game it would be badass. I've liked just about all of it so far, but that first half hour...holy SHIT. I totally was shocked when I realized 30 minutes had gone by. There were moments where I could see how ArtBane's work had influenced this first dungeon...which is not to infer that it isn't original. It's just I can see the same good instincts at work here. And of course those awesome cutscenes, the travel montage with that midi that sounded like 80s rock,and that incredible ship combat scene. That literally made my jaw drop. I've never seen anything like that in RM programs.

The Zalgoth stuff does border on corny at times, mostly because Captain Antonio's lines were really odd during that bit. Why was he calling Dejack "old man?" Did I miss something? 14 months ago he was a kid hanging out in his hometown.

Speaking of that, Des, your criticism of the flashback sequence is way off. I expect much more insightful criticism from you. There were moments where the exposition seemed a bit forced, and that finding people sidequest was annoying cause I had no clue that the last dude was out near the military base. I only found him cause I gave up on looking in the village and was just farting around in the forests. Still, I thought it was a pretty creative way to deal with something that might have been otherwise entirely cinematic.

here I'll even help you. this entire section could be cut down to this: dejack and zack talk about joining army. zack gets killed. dejack signs up.

Tell me you're kidding. You know full well that it's not just about getting from point A to point B. It's about creating immersion and getting a player involved in the world. Going into the past after the intro was a striking change of pace, this is true. But if he had rushed it, it would have felt more out of place, not less. Whether it succeeds at this immersion is a legitimate debate, but the suggestion of reducing it to nothing more than methodical connect-the-dots storytelling is just awful. Incidentally, both you and Bruno played the Arc V beta, and I don't recall either of you telling me the 25 minute flashback should have been cut to 2 scenes.

There was a lot of good criticism in his post, about battles, graphics, etc. But the inscrutable take on this sequence is not up to his usual standards. Do whatever you feel is best, Bruno.

Anyway, I'm psyched to finish it and talk about it some more. Very nice work.

 

[Despain]

????

i said multiple times that i was just pasting my notes. i take notes as i play a game to ensure the most accurate feedback. there's no need to waste time prettying things up, because most people should be able to extract the point without getting bent out of shape over the way its written.

at least for me that's the case.

 

[Despain]

Incidentally, both you and Bruno played the Arc V beta, and I don't recall either of you telling me the 25 minute flashback should have been cut to 2 scenes.

yours wasn't bogged down by "GO GET ME THE CAKE FROM MY KITCHEN."

you people are totally misunderstanding me. i tend to exaggerate and simplify things to get my point across, and then explain in more detail what i mean. you're probably looking at my exaggerations and simplifcations and taking them without thinking of the details. probably falwed rhetoric on my part, but hey

Tell me you're kidding. You know full well that it's not just about getting from point A to point B.

it was an exaggeration. i was just saying that we REALLY DONT NEED TO PUSH SOME LADY'S FURNITURE AROUND. it's a waste of time and isn't IMMERSIVE in any way, especially when she says "use the action key to move my dresser"

Incidentally, both you and Bruno played the Arc V beta, and I don't recall either of you telling me the 25 minute flashback should have been cut to 2 scenes.

yours was about characters that i had cared about and in a game that i had already invested hours into. more importantly, yours wasn't filled with filler. if in the middle of blacksteele's speech, the game stopped and i had to go out back and collect firewood, i would have been pretty damn bored with it!

the problem in this game is similar to the one in reives's game (it comes too early and is too boring to care about all the little details). people end to seriously overuse flashbacks (this is true in nearly all mediums, not just rpgmaker). they can be extremely powerful when used right and at the right time, but when abused they can very much ruin something.

my whole point with the flashback sequence isn't CUT IT ITS BAD RAARRGH or even TURN IT ALL INTOA SINGLE CONVERSATION CUTSCENE as some of you seem to think. my point is that a lot of it is a waste of time and detracts from the general pacing of the game.

if you REALLY are dead-set on keeping it because it adds an extra twenty minutes of "gameplay" then go for it. frankly i thought that helping out the dude with the tree thing was cool because it was optional. maybe if the furniture thing and the elevenses and all of that was optional, it wouldn't feel like such a chore to get through it all.