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RESULTS: Build & Win Construct 2 Contest *******************

Jason":2nl9dogw said:
How could 3 people NOT give me and Tuna a 4 for Marketing?! I mean, there's even a 2 in there! Judge number 9, whoever you are, I don't like you anymore! :mad: *pouts*

The judges all varied in opinions ... Some scored more harshly, some were easier to impress. A couple of the scores were arguable, but with 7 judges, strange scores would often be balanced out in the averages. All I can say is, we all worked really hard on this. Perhaps you noticed the image of all the material we had to compile on how to properly judge? All of the judges had to read all of it before starting. I don't think any of us rushed our verdicts.

Anyway, I'm sorry if any of you were judged more harshly than you'd prefer. But think of it this way: No one is perfect! You can't please all of the people all of the time ... But you might end up pleasing some of the people, some of the time :)
 
joannesalfa":1tab6ldd said:
When i saw a thread about who wants to be jugde, then i knew some judges have friends may support for their friends and add low score to each other who is not known. That's fine, but quite unreasonable for being a judge to public. Every other contest holders will choose the judges who made their popular games and let ask them if they want to be judge.
We definitely didn't let members' popularity affect our scores, I can say that for certain.
Of the top 12 placing members, only 4 or 5 of them were HBG members before the contest started! And Jason (& Tuna) are the only long-term HBG members to place in the top three.
 
Speaking of the judging criteria, is there actually a grab-able version of all of those available somewhere? I'd be interested :grin: (just looked at the picture you hid in the initial post, but it's quite undistinguishable)
 
BlueScope":optjh2vu said:
Speaking of the judging criteria, is there actually a grab-able version of all of those available somewhere? I'd be interested :grin: (just looked at the picture you hid in the initial post, but it's quite undistinguishable)
I didn't make ALL of the material available, but a good portion of it is in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=873496#p873496
(It's been edited to add additional info you may not have seen when you first saw that thread.)

Hopefully that helps! I'm not eager to debate scores with people, so I ask that no one starts arguments about interpretations of scores. The judges were well-informed, and made well-informed decisions. They shouldn't have to defend them, especially since they are supposed to be anonymous :)
 
Venetia":1k26r7tg said:
Hopefully that helps! I'm not eager to debate scores with people, so I ask that no one starts arguments about interpretations of scores. The judges were well-informed, and made well-informed decisions. They shouldn't have to defend them, especially since they are supposed to be anonymous :)

Well, with my sincerity, these judges aren't mentioned to whose are the numbers were posted in PDF, i think maybe they won't expose who are really the judges because some judges won't to be offended, compromised by personal vendetta and something like that from angry participants for some reason, so they aren't supposed to be the judges, but they took their decisions to be judge in the contest.
 
I just wanted to say I really enjoyed being a judge. Also, just so you know, anyone who submitted their games late I gave them a 0 at marketing. Gladly, these were non permanent HBG residents, so I see it as a plus for the community.
 
joannesalfa":dve881dg said:
Well, with my sincerity, these judges aren't mentioned to whose are the numbers were posted in PDF, i think maybe they won't expose who are really the judges because some judges won't to be offended, compromised by personal vendetta and something like that from angry participants for some reason, so they aren't supposed to be the judges, but they took their decisions to be judge in the contest.
Not ... Entirely sure what you're saying here due to translation problems.

There were 7 judges, each given a randomized number (1-9). There were originally 9 judges, but two of them were unable to submit scores on time.

There are no additional judges. I kept the judges numbered instead of naming them because I don't want anyone trying to pick fights with them over their scores.

It was a lot of work being a judge, and they really didn't get anything for doing it, so I do not feel that entrants should be allowed to harass them about the judges' honest opinions.
 
^^ i don't ever think about this contest is fair or not fair... just care about what i learned from it :heart:
Simple and comfortable control, good gameplay and easy to play always the best, this is what i learned ...
 
Im sorry for my english.


So you kept the judges numbered instead of naming, well there a reason why these judges gave some unreasonable scores and you know why you decided to not put their names. I'm not here to complain about the judges, i was commenting that why these judges weren't good and i know it was hard work.

If the judges were good for posting the reasons of scores and let the participants will accept their reasons, it would be good idea to not pick the fights. In that case some participants decide to harass about the judges, they should to be banned here.
 

Tuna

Awesome Bro

I just want to say thank you again to Ven, Soph, Brew, Pipes, Juan, Forever, Liquid, and all of the HBGames community for supporting Project GRID in this contest! Especially large thanks to Ven for putting up with my ceaseless private messages and providing extra encouragement throughout the process! It's been a joy working on GRID, and I can only imagine what it may have become had I helped for more than a very small portion of two weeks on the project. Congrats to all of the winners! It's been a joy competing with you all!

In regards to the many comments about judging, judging a contest like this is certainly a difficult task. Like Ven said, Jason and I were the only forum natives that actually made the top three, so the judging was unbiased in every meaning of the word. I personally won't spend more than a quick second looking over the scores we received, because the contest is over and that is that. No point dwelling over things that can't be changed!

Thank you again to Ven for hosting this awesome contest! If you've spoken to her as much as I have over the past few weeks, then you'll realize just how much heart and soul she has poured into this contest. Without her, I doubt it would have been anywhere near as successful as it turned out to be. I look forward to the next contest, and hopefully she won't be too exhausted to head that one as well!

Much love for all,
Tuna!
 

onzephyr

Awesome Bro

Surprised is a pretty good word.

Congrats to all the winners, and thanks to everyone who put the contest together, judged it and supported it. Seeing all the craziness the judges went through, you had a heck of a lot of work to do. I can only imagine how much time and energy went in to making the contest happen. More work to make the contest happen then to enter.
Is it weird that after reading all the stuff the judges did, I kind of want to be a judge when another contest comes along?
 
I'd like to thank everyone. I didn't sense any rudeness or even a lack of courtesy from people as I, an outsider who saw a post on the Scirra forums, rolled on in and made a thread. It was totally worthwhile and a very valued learning experience providing me with things I'd never have even considered if I did this on my own.

If you supported this financially, there should be some sort of "I Win At Life" medal for you to be nominated for.

I'd also like to note that with 4 points between 1st and 8th and .7 points between 8th and 12th, that's about as close as it gets...I hope everyone keeps fighting the good fight. Thanks so much!

CF
 
Thanks :D

I want to make a quick note about judging, to further clear some things up:


I have run a number of contests in the past.
In my experience, judging is generally a difficult, often thankless task. People generally do not want to be judges--they're necessary, but so hard to find!

The reasons are simple. There is a lot of content to look at, no real incentive to do it, and you will never win many friends for doing it, because people are not going to like any negative things you say about their entries. And, even more, just the simple act of reporting your scores is tedious and is simply a massive chore. It sucks!

In the past, I've demanded more thorough judging responses. I asked for not only point scores, but critiques as well.

Here's what happens when you ask someone to be a judge, AND you ask them to write out all of their critiques and reasons for why they scored the way they did:
People don't judge.

I ran a contest once a number of years ago which demanded tons of critiques from all judges. We had ~4 judges, and far more entries than we had expected.
In the end, ALL of the judges bowed out under the massive workload. EVERYTHING fell to me, to do entirely on my own.
I couldn't blame them. It took an UNTOLD number of hours to finally get it done. What was worse was that I turned in the results late, after waiting for the other judges to talk to me. No one was happy with the results. I wasted a huge amount of life judging that thing.
Never again.

In a perfect world, we would have detailed analyses on all games, and all judges would have chimed in about everything that they encounted that caused negativity in a score.

It is not a perfect world.

The judges are not paid, and, like I said, in my experience, I CANNOT demand that they post all of their opinions about everything. Because then, we'd have WAY less than 7 judges.

If any of the judges care to post more detailed responses, I urge them to do so! (Please don't give out your judge number, though).

But I'm not going to demand it. I'm not a slave driver, I'm a contest-runner :)

If you are unhappy with your score, take a step back, and consider that:
- Sometimes people are overly critical. They feel that NOTHING ever deserves a perfect score. It could be that there was no way you'd get a '4' in that category from that judge without a miracle.
- If we experienced lag or even 1-2 bugs, that knocked off atleast 1 point in Stability. It's hard to make a game truly bug-free. Your game may just need more attention in playtesting.
- If you used any annoying sounds, or sounds or graphics that were really big, that would affect your score negatively. Especially if they were so big that they did not load.
- It was recommended that the judges score using a very loose curve. Meaning, if your game was not the BEST OF THE BEST in a category, a more literal judge may have knocked off a point or two, due to observing the curved scoring method.
- If there was nothing, or very little, to combat against, that would probably have negatively affected the Fun score. Not 100% always there, but it's a good possibility.
- If the game was very short, or didn't have a satisfying end of some sort, our opinions may have been negatively affected.

Honestly though, if you look here: viewtopic.php?f=293&t=76326 and look at the Spoiler at the bottom of the thread, you will see a huge list of questions that a judge was told to ask him/herself while playing. You would know why you were docked points based on those questions.

In any case, even bringing up full analyses is unnecessary. The scores are final and will not change. It would be pointless to debate and nitpick.

The only thing you can do, if you were unhappy with your ranking, is to consider what the top-placed entries did, and take it as a lesson to keep improving. When the next contest rolls around, you'll be much better prepared! :D
 
Wow! To be quite honest, I was really rooting for valkyriegames' and Jason's projects! Good job, you guys! You really deserved those prizes!

I'm so proud. =P
 
@Venetia, is not needed to make a post like that, i don't think it's needed to request their detailed responses. This contest is already done, so the runner-up participants will ignore this thread or maybe they will lurk here.

About judging which is considered anyone wants to be judge can secretly give support to their friends who are participating the contest, maybe there some judges don't trust some new HBgames members to participate this contest, after of this event, then participants stop posting here and they leave forever. In fact there no real honesty on Internet. :sad:


Next contests would be good idea :biggrin:
 
I dunno, I think I would've rather judged than participated... entire March was consumed with thinking about tanks on planets. I'm sure judging was hard as well, but I'd say you didn't even get close to four weeks of contant re-thinking and re-working the same idea... XD

In general, it makes sense to keep the judge numbers disclosed, though. Scores have to be given on some kind of basis, and even though I can't shake the feeling that there was some less independence going on in judging than hoped for, I'm sure noone intentionally got rated worse because they're familiar with this community or not. Whether the posts from Juan and Tuna on the first page negate that or not is a different matter, and I wouldn't say that 'GTFO' is the appropriate vocabulary at all even taken with a grain of salt, but come on... in the end, if everyone had half the great time that I had and learned at least as much, you're walking away with a smile, a good feeling, maybe the urge to improve on the next contest where you'll be judged by onzephyr and me :devil: and whether you won a license or not, you know you got something in you that wants to be a game designer. Try again some other time, I'm sure there'll be a time and place to snag another license, some cash or something else you want to get your hands on!
 

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