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Making the XP Combat System Deeper

I'm not much of a scripter or sprite-maker, so I plan on using the basic system of combat for my RPG (aka: The provided one) unless something better and just as convenient pops up.
Now, here's the problem: The basic system is..... basic.

Can someone please help me to deepen the combat system of RPG Maker XP? So far, I've incorporated a light/heavy armour system (the latter giving more defence and magic defence but lowering agility severely) which I will balance accordingly, and I've made the weapons and armour available to each class extensive (AKA: you aren't restricted to just axes/swords/whatever, you get a wider selection).

The next thing I am planning: More strategic skills (for both characters and enemies)... but I'm not sure which direction to go with this. Can someone with experience with the system please give me some insight on what kind of skills should be added? My Monster character uses general damaging skills, with Berserk as an extra... but that's about all I've done with skills so far.

Thanks to whoever can help me with this.
 
An interesting little update: I've decided to implement Dual Wielding :D !!! ....Problem: You can't add Physical Attack stat to someone through shields.

There's probably a script that makes it possible to just use two actual weapons, but I'm thinking it would be easier if I could make some sort of Dual Wield Light/Medium/Heavy States. Not sure how it would exactly work, but I'd increase the Attack Percentage by an amount based on how heavy the dual-weapons are--and decrease the Dexterity percentile also based on how heavy the Dual Wielding is.

Assuming it works out fine for me to do this, there is still the question as to what kind of percentiles I'll want? Can you guys please give me an idea as to how hindering the Dex penalty should be, as well as the usefulness of the Attack boost? I certainly don't want all the characters to Dual-Wield -- unless someone wants to have all characters dual-wield as a fun thing they wish to accomplish -- but I still want it useful, fun, and interesting enough that people would have one or two party members focus on Dual Wielding. Something like this, maybe?

Dual Wield Light: 110% ATK, 95% DEX.
Dual Wield Medium: 120% ATK, 80% DEX.
Dual Wield Heavy: 130% ATK, 65% DEX.

That's just my untrained example of how I would think of doing it.

Thanks.
 
*Bump* if I may.

You can ignore the Dual Wielding for now if you wish--I have a simpler and more pressing problem. I changed armour's AGI penalty to a State, so that agile characters will be even worse off than tank characters AGI-wise when wearing heavy armour. Thinking over this, I've considered making ALL equipment so that it has a state which changes your stats, rather than just adding on an amount. This wouldn't really work with ATK Power, but with a completely Skill-based system like the one I'm using, I could always make attacks a bit more dependant on STR, DEX, INT etcetera, so that your level and your equipment do make an actual difference.

I was thinking of something like this, as for weapon differentiation:

Swords: Balanced.
Spears: +Dex, -Agi.
Axes: +Str, -Dex.
Daggers: +Agi, +Dex, -Str.

Could someone please help me out with how I should do this (I mostly just need help with the percentages the stats would be edited by)?
 
This is a great idea actually. You're really onto something. It'll give your game a pretty unique feel.

Also, if you still want to replace the shield with a weapon, you can search for dual wielding script here on the forum. It makes things pretty easy. I've seen some simple ones.
 
Yeah, the more I think about it, the better the idea seems. The problem is, as said, I'm not sure how I should do the percentages, not just for the equipment (that part would probably be simpler), but for the skills...

How much ATK Power would I want? If there are several skills, how much percentage should I give for each? Doesn't X skill bonus for Skill Y conflict with Penalty Z and make it pointless?

Those are some of the questions I'm asking myself. The MAIN question: How high a stat percentage (it would be split up if there were several stats involved), and how high an ATK percentage, with skills? Once I get that answered, I can start to work on actually balancing it and working out how much items should effect this.
 
ahhh...finally something interesting enough to keep me on this site for more than 3-4 minutes a day now! Thank you. :thumb:

So before I go into XP and start working on this, I need to get things straight as to what you're attempting to do.
1. You want different equipment to add states. (ex. you have something heavy so it inflicts the state, Heavy 10, for a 10% speed dock.)
2. Different states do different things to your stats. (same as above...)
3. You want your stat docks and additions to be in percentages so that it is more balanced. Correct??

A suggestion though, you may want to hide the states applied by the weapons and armor, because you would have soooo many states applied at once it might get confusing...
 
No problem. :wink:

1. Heavy Armour adds a percentile penalty to AGI. Similarly, Axes would add a percentile penalty to DEX and a bonus to STR, while spears would penalize AGI and raise DEX.
2. Yep, pretty much. I'd have to make a bunch of states, one for each piece of equipment.
3. Yep. That way, an agile rogue won't be as good with Heavy Full-plate as the hardened warrior.

Already doing that, but thanks for pointing it out. :cheers:

If you could work out what sort of penalties for stats the equipment should give, and whether attack power needs to be changed so that characters are more stat-dependant, then I would be VERY grateful! Thank you very much :thumb: !
 
The problem is I don't even have a vague idea as in which numbers I should start with... Is 100% stats + 70% Attack Power good? Or should it be 120% Stats and 50% Attack Power?

Then there comes the question as to penalties to stats from weapons. You said to make the heaviest armour -40% to AGI, wasn't it? Then comes the question as to weapons like spears which might also lower your AGI with a bonus to DEX...
Weapon 1: +5% -5%
Weapon 2: +10% -7%
Weapon 3: +15% -10%
Weapon 4: +20% -12%
Weapon 5: +25% -15%
Weapon 6: +30% -17%

Something like that, maybe...?
 
I would if I knew what the combat was going to be like. The skills aren't finished, and I don't know what percentages to give them if they were. Monsters haven't been given skills yet. That plus the equipment not being done, and I'm unsure as to where I start... Which do you think I should work on first?
 
whoa...I haven't been working on this...sorry about that. I've gotten caught up in making my battle result window then sidetracked having to type up all of my math notes for school into web pages...(a new section every other day, usually 5-6 pages printed each !!) So yeah, I've been kinda busy. I just have a really busy schedule the next week or so. We'll see what I can do though. This just takes the time to do it, otherwise it's pretty simple...It's to bad I'm lacking in the time area though :sad: I'll see if I can't get something to show you tomorrow. I have about an hour of freetime...I'll work on it then!
 
Your % progression problem seems very abstract, and depends on the frequency of weapons new in the game as well as the curves you chose to use in character progression.

How often do you acquire a better one vs. the difficulty of the enemies?

How much more expensive is the previous from the next?

What number ratio are you using for stats (such as HP, ST, DX, etc... are you using the default?) While the overall number itself doesn't matter if you're using %, the gap in between and the relevant rarity of getting a better weapon does come into play.

Playtesting, as Unka Josh said, is a good sounding board.

@ things not being finished: Make some dumby weapons and armor and monsters and try it all out. It's the fastest way to see how your numbers are moving.
 
Thanks X. Hope to hear from you soon.


@Infinite: Haven't worked out the exact line of character progression, yet. One thing I was considering was making the character level up more lsowly, but award large amounts of experience for things such as side-quests and boss monsters. Also, the percentages mightn't make as much of a difference, depending on how high a percentage stats get in Skills.

I plan on there be a LOT of weapons. Each weapon will probably only be somewhat better than the previous, with special equipment the player can gain sticking out a bit more than the rest.

Expense of the weapons doesn't really relate to the current problem. That's for when all the weapons' and skills' power and stat ratios have been worked out, and I get onto the question as to how I handle money (I might go for a system where having 10,000 gold would be a massive fortune).

Expect for SP, I'm using all the same numbers as the base system.

The problem is, working it out from scratch would probably take me, someone new to the schematics of RPG fighting systems, four times the time it would take someone experienced with the system. That's why I want to wait till X can help me with the numbers--so that I can have a solid foot-hold to work from. That way, with something to base my numbers off, I can better work out the other things.

I tried that a while, but it seemed like it would take me far longer to work out then someone experienced with the system (hence why I brought up the question here).
 
Hmmm... X, have you managed to test anything yet? Even if I could get a rough estimate as to where to a good place to start with the numbers, I should be able to do it myself.
 
xgamexfreakx":4l41u0mz said:
Makasu":4l41u0mz said:
If the basic system is to basic why not just get a different battle system? Like an RTAB or something? There are plenty of scripts that are just plug and play that pretty much run off of the functions of the default one.
[quote autor=Connors]I'm not much of a [...]sprite-maker[...].
. This is what keeps people like him and I from using those kind of battle systems. It's true that they do plug and play, but if you can't make sprites, your stuck with the default ones that come with the system which usually don't match your game.

Personally, if your looking for a good person to talk to about modifying the default battle system, look into contacting ehaper256. HE has done a really good job of taking the battle system and modifying it to be a lot more fun.

Hope this helps!
~xgamexfreakx[/quote]

So Ehaper edited it so much, well, then its a cbs? Dont see the point, if you edit something its custom.
 
((Don't have anything to reply to your comment Smith--sorry.))

EDIT: .....I was about to add the stats to the weapons, but remembered that weapons can give you states (as far as I can understand it). There is still a way to do what I was aiming for without adding in complicated scripts, however. Since the system is based around skills, I can edit around details like skill Power, and the skill's Accuracy. Thus, Axes have more power and less accuracy, and spears have more accuracy and less power.
At the same time, Attack Accuracy has been made more sketchy by making the base amount 90, 85 for inaccurate weapons like axes, and 95 for accurate weapons (there will of course be skills which lower accuracy for more attack power and vice-versa).

I have been thinking about some more details for my system...

Swords
A balanced weapon, they neither raise nor lowers stat percentages.
Sword skills use mostly Strength, and Dexterity, with some Agility.
SP cost is normal.

Axes
Naturally powerful, an axe requires a good deal of power to be used effectively. STR+, ATK+, -DEX.
Axe skills use Strength, with a little Dexterity and a tiny amount of Agility.
Higher SP cost. Axes require more energy to swing.

Spears
Usually mass-produced as a cheaper weapon, spears are generally less damaging than most other weapons--but their long reach makes it easier to strike foes and keep them at bay. -STR, -ATK, +DEX.
Spear skills rely heavily on Dexterity, with Strength and Agility being lesser stats of importance (in that order, most to least).
Lower SP cost. Lighter than most weapons and thrusts being a less exerting attack, spears take less energy to use.

Daggers
More often a secondary-weapon or because you have nothing better, daggers are for only the very quick. -STR, --ATK, +DEX, +AGI.
More focused on stabbing into vitals and cracks in an enemy's defences, daggers are dependant on Agility and Dexterity equally--with a bit of Strength.
Low SP cost. There is no weapon you will find in the game lighter than a dagger--anything lighter would be useless.

Maces
Not only blunt clubs, a good deal of maces were anti-armour weapons--sharp angles cutting into metal armour whilst the weight of the blow crushes it. Unfortunately, while better for piercing armour, maces don't hold the pure damage-potential of cutting weapons, nor the ability to bleed your opponent. STR+, -ATK, DEX+.
Accurate, strong blows are the work of maces. Thus Dexterity and Strength have an equal role with their skills, Agility barely playing a part.
Higher SP cost. While not hard to control most, a mace still ends up more tiring due to weight being a large part of its use.

Bows
The bow is thought by some to be the ultimate weapon of war, raining arrows down on the enemy long before any sword, spear, or axe could touch the archers in question. Defending with a bow once the swords, spears and axes are up to you, however, is a very difficult matter--and manoeuvring in general is difficult to do while knocking an arrow or drawing the bowstring. DEX++, -AGI.
Bow skills use Dexterity very heavily along with moderate Strength. Agility often has no part whatsoever.

Staves
Whether a metal rod or a wizard's walking stick, staves are generally considered a weapon for non-combatants--the exception being the quarter-staff. -ATK, AGI+.
Agility and Strength are equally important for staff skills, with dexterity holding a minor role.
Normal SP cost.

Shields
To attack with a shield, by the definition of some, would be madness!... but they likely haven't felt the edge of a heavy, solid block of round wood slam into their face. Low damage, DEF++, RES+.
Shields aren't intended as weapons, and require a good deal of Strength, Dexterity, and some Agility to be used as such with any efficiency. Even then, their main use would be for stunning a foe momentarily.
Normal SP cost.

Two-Handed Weapons
Normal axes and swords can get pretty big, but these weapons get bigger still. While you won't be able to use a shield while swinging these huge blades around, the damage you do will be well worth it... IF you strike first. STR+, ATK++, -DEX.
While heavier than axes, the use of two hands makes Agility close to as important as Strength for Two-handed weapon skills--Dexterity remains mildly significant.
Higher SP cost. Since you're using two hands, the amount of effort required is only mildly more than an axe.

Dual Wielding
This style of fighting is intended only for the skilled, the less experienced only capable of blocking with their second weapon. Viewing a true warrior slashing through enemy after enemy, however, will make you very aware of the great damaging potential of two weapons. ATK+, -DEX, DEF+ (apply this to the combined modifiers of the weapons used).
Dexterity, Agility, Strength.... all are important for the proper use of dual-wielding skills, equal to each other more or less.
High SP cost. Even more fatiguing than swinging a heavy weapon, the mental power alone for coordinating two weapons is exhausting (add on the SP modifiers of the weapons used).

Guns
No one really uses guns, they died out with Empire Zin.... Terrifying weapons, powerful enough to pierce any armour, and usable even by a Zination child--no one dared stand up to these. ++ATK, +DEX.
One only needed to aim the strange device at the intended target and pull a trigger... Dexterity was the only requirement for a proper Zination soldier.
High SP cost. A single shot is easy for anyone.... but the "recoil" of such weapons requires great endurance to stave off.

Unarmed
There are some -- whether for religious reasons, to show off, lack of weapons, or a strict school of fighting -- who use no weapon other than their body and what they wear on it. Such fighting is a risky business, and a balance of all physical traits is important. --ATK, AGI++.
As said, a balance is crucial to staying alive through fighting without weapons. Depending on the attack, Agility and Dexteriy might be above Strength, but more often they are on more-or-less equal ground.
Normal SP cost. Even without a heavy weapon, dancing about to fight unarmed is just as costly an experience.

Beast
There maybe no creature besides humans without some kind of biting, clawing, stinging, or other form of natural defence. Such attacks are generally quick, savage, and devastating. STR+, AGI+.
Strength and Agility are important for beast skills, Dexterity only so much below them.
Higher SP cost. The energy and ferocity of beasts is as incredible as their supply of stamina...

Unique weapons
Some weapons are different form those mentions. Such includes the Morning Star, which has even more Strength and Attack then axes but are harder to use, harder to hit with, and make it harder to dodge about. The rapier which does damage lesser than some daggers but raises dexterity and agility even further, with ease of use. And the Ninja-Claw which has more Attack over its unarmed counterpart.


This sound good? I'll have to get scripts to do the Two-handed weapon and Dual Wielding, but I'll need the stats more or less set-up before I ask.
 

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