What turns you off from rpgs?
- Thread starter Lishy
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Feldschlacht IV
Member
That's weird. I mean, yes, in an RPG the story is paramount, but if I'm having a fun as hell time with the gameplay, then I can overlook it. After all, the GAMEplay is what a GAME is about. You don't feel the same way towards ALL genres, do you?
For me (going on RPGs in general):
- button mashing battle systems. I like a little tactical thought, even if all it involves is positioning characters or picking ranges for spells.
- Too much grinding. Some is fine, I tend to fight around an area if I enjoy the battle system anyway to power up a bit.
- Unbalanced enemies. Connected to grinding, I don't want to get to a new area and suddenly find enemies are way too weak compared to where I came from, or too strong to stand a chance against. They should present a challenge, but not an insurmountable one or one that requires endless grinding to overcome.
- Stories that forget plot points or don't make sense / require a guidebook to make sense of. Forgetting plot points leaves a sense of something being unfinished. Making an allusion overly obscure just makes the story confusing. At the same time, there's no need to bludgeon the point home.
- button mashing battle systems. I like a little tactical thought, even if all it involves is positioning characters or picking ranges for spells.
- Too much grinding. Some is fine, I tend to fight around an area if I enjoy the battle system anyway to power up a bit.
- Unbalanced enemies. Connected to grinding, I don't want to get to a new area and suddenly find enemies are way too weak compared to where I came from, or too strong to stand a chance against. They should present a challenge, but not an insurmountable one or one that requires endless grinding to overcome.
- Stories that forget plot points or don't make sense / require a guidebook to make sense of. Forgetting plot points leaves a sense of something being unfinished. Making an allusion overly obscure just makes the story confusing. At the same time, there's no need to bludgeon the point home.
dadevvtsvre
Sponsor
What turns me off is, like others here, lack of gameplay. There are other things, though. A weak plot is definitely up there. Plot is essentially the backbone of a game, the structure, the driving force that moves the game along. With a weak plot, all the other things-characters, gameplay, graphics, you name it-have a reduced quality as well.
Thin characters also do it. I'm tired of playing games where a fifteen year old swordsman is trying to save the world along with his girl love interest, shy magician, etc. I always look for character development and fleshed out, realistic characters. After all, they're the ones you're playing, and you should be able to relate to them, feel for them.
Pace as well can make or break a game. Depending on the type of game, the pace of a game can vary. But no matter what kind of game, if the game moves too slow, too many cutscenes, too much dialogue, whatever, I'm uninterested. I just want to play the game!
So many other things, like too difficult/too easy battles, bad dialogue, and poor music can turn anybody off.
Thin characters also do it. I'm tired of playing games where a fifteen year old swordsman is trying to save the world along with his girl love interest, shy magician, etc. I always look for character development and fleshed out, realistic characters. After all, they're the ones you're playing, and you should be able to relate to them, feel for them.
Pace as well can make or break a game. Depending on the type of game, the pace of a game can vary. But no matter what kind of game, if the game moves too slow, too many cutscenes, too much dialogue, whatever, I'm uninterested. I just want to play the game!
So many other things, like too difficult/too easy battles, bad dialogue, and poor music can turn anybody off.
Story never bothers me much. A great story is just gravy so long as the fun gameplay is there.
What kills RPGs for me are the following points:
- Main character is an emo/scene looking teenager.
- Most of the cast is under drinking age [unless it's a plot involving a fairy story or something designed to be accomplished with kids specifically]
- Level grinding
- Random Encounters
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Random Encounters
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
What kills RPGs for me are the following points:
- Main character is an emo/scene looking teenager.
- Most of the cast is under drinking age [unless it's a plot involving a fairy story or something designed to be accomplished with kids specifically]
- Level grinding
- Random Encounters
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
- Random Encounters
- Level grinding
- Level grinding
Delmaschio
Member
I loved PSone's age, I could play almost all of it's RPGs, even though the graphics weren't great, the storylines were good, after a few hours playing you found yourself inside the game, wondering how those characters would deal with their situations, that was nice.
Something I could rarely find in a PS2 RPG, (PS2 because most of RPGs were made for it, at least I think so).
I think there must be a connection between the game and the player, which is made with good characters and storyline, of course a nice gameplay is also recquired. However, that is very hard to see today in every genre, because no matter how hard you try you always end up on Cliches, I can deal with them, but when they're too logic, it kills me, if that makes any sense;
I think the key is:
-Make your story.
-Read it yourself, find the cliches, you will find them.
-Play with them, twist them, make something unique, without being ridiculous of course.
I think that will work just fine.
Well, I found myself talking about cliches, I'm sorry I prolonged myself.
The lack of connection between the game and the player is what turns me off not only from RPGs but all genres.
Something I could rarely find in a PS2 RPG, (PS2 because most of RPGs were made for it, at least I think so).
I think there must be a connection between the game and the player, which is made with good characters and storyline, of course a nice gameplay is also recquired. However, that is very hard to see today in every genre, because no matter how hard you try you always end up on Cliches, I can deal with them, but when they're too logic, it kills me, if that makes any sense;
I think the key is:
-Make your story.
-Read it yourself, find the cliches, you will find them.
-Play with them, twist them, make something unique, without being ridiculous of course.
I think that will work just fine.
Well, I found myself talking about cliches, I'm sorry I prolonged myself.
The lack of connection between the game and the player is what turns me off not only from RPGs but all genres.
Venetia":1n60w3cw said:
This is pretty close to my list. I honestly like RPGs that flow. Chrono Trigger is my one of my favorites because I don't have to level grind (except for Giga Gaia, but he's a royal prick unless you run around the world picking up shadow/fire resist gear). I think the biggest turn off is what everyone else has said, a plot that doesn't connect well. I think of all the RPGs I've played I've only ever been turned off by Secret of Mana. It's gameplay is amazing, but honestly in my opinion the plot is spacey and doesn't flow well. The Mana series in general suffers from "One dungeon of each element no exceptions!" rule greatly and with that rule a plot that makes the game force itself into those dungeons, but the newer ones put twists on it that at least make the game fun which helps it along I think.
Link in Pink
Member
Honestly, if a game has random battles, I'm inclined to completely stop it at the first one and never play it again. I like to be able to move around, not feel like I have to move somewhere in a certain amount of steps or I'll encounter a random battle. Plus when I'm exploring an area I can only handle so many random battles before my items are sucked dry and I have nothing to do but try and escape only to be caught in more random battles and eventually die.
Now it's another game if the random battles are character sets that can be avoided. Those I don't mind, in fact I prefer those a lot.
Also if quest or way forward is not clear, such as poor mapping that shows no sign of where I have to go, it pisses me off when I have to go hunting for something that should be an obvious step forward in the game. That makes the game not only difficult, but not enjoyable.
Those are my main issues that make me want to stop playing a game. :p
Now it's another game if the random battles are character sets that can be avoided. Those I don't mind, in fact I prefer those a lot.
Also if quest or way forward is not clear, such as poor mapping that shows no sign of where I have to go, it pisses me off when I have to go hunting for something that should be an obvious step forward in the game. That makes the game not only difficult, but not enjoyable.
Those are my main issues that make me want to stop playing a game. :p
Storyline wise -
Overly convoluted and pretentious stories. I realize this describes 70% of current RPGs. What I don't like is when they decide to take on a heavy subject and then handle it with the ham-handedness of a 12 year old "movie director" who just got his first camera for Christmas.
I can even handle bad gameplay if the story is good enough, but more than often, it's not. I used to think that jRPGs were the end-all be-all of videogame storytelling. El oh el. Then I grew up. Nonsensical spiritual metaphors and vomited plot points mean nothing when there's little thought put into them beyond "well that sounds cool and mysterious, let's do that."
Characters. As much as I love looking at Chrono Trigger through those nostalgia goggles of mine, it commits one of the biggest crimes in my book. The Silent Protagonist. I either want the characters (including the main character) to be well-developed non stereotypes, or let me fully control him/her myself like a Bioware RPG. Don't just make the main character a silent zombie... please?
Gameplay wise -
^ What they said about grinding. No matter how fun the battle system is I don't want to be forced to kill the same shit over and over to have any hope of proceeding. That's not fun, that's a white collar desk job with swords and magic.
Just about any type of ATB system. To me it seems like a sad attempt to merge action and turn-based systems into one horrible Frankensteinian monstrosity. I'm sure it could be done well, but I've yet to see it, even in commercial games. (I'm lookin' at you FF.)
More as I think of 'em, I suppose.
Overly convoluted and pretentious stories. I realize this describes 70% of current RPGs. What I don't like is when they decide to take on a heavy subject and then handle it with the ham-handedness of a 12 year old "movie director" who just got his first camera for Christmas.
I can even handle bad gameplay if the story is good enough, but more than often, it's not. I used to think that jRPGs were the end-all be-all of videogame storytelling. El oh el. Then I grew up. Nonsensical spiritual metaphors and vomited plot points mean nothing when there's little thought put into them beyond "well that sounds cool and mysterious, let's do that."
Characters. As much as I love looking at Chrono Trigger through those nostalgia goggles of mine, it commits one of the biggest crimes in my book. The Silent Protagonist. I either want the characters (including the main character) to be well-developed non stereotypes, or let me fully control him/her myself like a Bioware RPG. Don't just make the main character a silent zombie... please?
Gameplay wise -
^ What they said about grinding. No matter how fun the battle system is I don't want to be forced to kill the same shit over and over to have any hope of proceeding. That's not fun, that's a white collar desk job with swords and magic.
Just about any type of ATB system. To me it seems like a sad attempt to merge action and turn-based systems into one horrible Frankensteinian monstrosity. I'm sure it could be done well, but I've yet to see it, even in commercial games. (I'm lookin' at you FF.)
More as I think of 'em, I suppose.
xgamexfreakx
Member
Really, Random encounters suck. I hate them. They just get annoying, and like Link in Pink said, they just end up getting you killed because you either, ran out of items, or you just suck.
As for leveling, I don't mind it so much, as long as I don't have to level like 60 levels or something. I'm using Star Ocean 3 here. This is one of my absolute favorite games. I'm really a sucker for futuristic type games so this one really got me. However, there were points in the game where I had to level up something like 5-10 levels. I didn't mind though just because I would go overboard to something like an extra 5-10 levels to get that next really cool skill or something. But then I got to the final boss. I got there at like level 55 or so, and could not beat him for the life of me. So I went back and trained an additional 15 levels to around 70 where I was finally able to beat him. This leveling I don't like. You are right up to the final boss, and you can beat everything around you pretty easily, then you just get slaughtered by the boss. It just really depends on the situation.
For the characters, I like the characters that are not silent. Silent characters just irritate me. They have no personality whatsoever and it's really boring. As for the teenage kid stereotype, it's really a staple of RPG's if you think about it. I mean, if you look back at most RPG's, the characters range anywhere from 16-28 with characters around 19 being the most common IMO. I really don't mind the whole teenager thing here though, even though it is a pretty bad cliche because that is who the games are really aimed at. Kids like to play games where people like them get to be the hero. That really adds to funness if you will. Once the kids turn 16, 17, 18, ect, however, they don't care about that anymore and really look for a good thought out character that fits the storyline and that part right. I mean, a 15 year old who is the absolute best at swordfighting in the world, (who then doesn't have any skills, HP, MP, or anything like that...) just bugs me...but that's another rant for another time...
Another thing that I don't like is when the battle system involves just button mashing. Now, Star Ocean didn't completely comply with this. I mean, you run around on a battle field and press x over and over again. I mean, yeah, it did have some tactics to it with the skills and such, but once you mastered those, it just turned back into button mashing. A battle system that I love is one like Advance Wars, where you actually have to think about what you want to do. The only problem, is how difficult that that system is to integrate into and RPG. Yes, it's possible, but usually you have to revolve around a bigger party and bigger enemies which ends up being more work for me. The XAS system is an OK system IMO because, yes you can just button mash, but that really can just get you killed.... A bad battle system really throws me off of a game. A bad battle system really lowers the gameplay value which then in turn, makes it no fun.
As for leveling, I don't mind it so much, as long as I don't have to level like 60 levels or something. I'm using Star Ocean 3 here. This is one of my absolute favorite games. I'm really a sucker for futuristic type games so this one really got me. However, there were points in the game where I had to level up something like 5-10 levels. I didn't mind though just because I would go overboard to something like an extra 5-10 levels to get that next really cool skill or something. But then I got to the final boss. I got there at like level 55 or so, and could not beat him for the life of me. So I went back and trained an additional 15 levels to around 70 where I was finally able to beat him. This leveling I don't like. You are right up to the final boss, and you can beat everything around you pretty easily, then you just get slaughtered by the boss. It just really depends on the situation.
For the characters, I like the characters that are not silent. Silent characters just irritate me. They have no personality whatsoever and it's really boring. As for the teenage kid stereotype, it's really a staple of RPG's if you think about it. I mean, if you look back at most RPG's, the characters range anywhere from 16-28 with characters around 19 being the most common IMO. I really don't mind the whole teenager thing here though, even though it is a pretty bad cliche because that is who the games are really aimed at. Kids like to play games where people like them get to be the hero. That really adds to funness if you will. Once the kids turn 16, 17, 18, ect, however, they don't care about that anymore and really look for a good thought out character that fits the storyline and that part right. I mean, a 15 year old who is the absolute best at swordfighting in the world, (who then doesn't have any skills, HP, MP, or anything like that...) just bugs me...but that's another rant for another time...
Another thing that I don't like is when the battle system involves just button mashing. Now, Star Ocean didn't completely comply with this. I mean, you run around on a battle field and press x over and over again. I mean, yeah, it did have some tactics to it with the skills and such, but once you mastered those, it just turned back into button mashing. A battle system that I love is one like Advance Wars, where you actually have to think about what you want to do. The only problem, is how difficult that that system is to integrate into and RPG. Yes, it's possible, but usually you have to revolve around a bigger party and bigger enemies which ends up being more work for me. The XAS system is an OK system IMO because, yes you can just button mash, but that really can just get you killed.... A bad battle system really throws me off of a game. A bad battle system really lowers the gameplay value which then in turn, makes it no fun.
Completely linear games with fixed encounters, boring 3 hour "cinematic" cut-scenes, little to no gameplay, emphasis on glitz and sparkles instead of role playing content, and other bullshit that seems to captivate the minds and imaginations of anime fans and not rpg gamers.
Level grinding: I don't really like having to bring my progress to a complete stop so I can slash goblins for an hour, just because generic end-of-dungeon boss #53 has an attack that does 4 more points of damage than I have HP. It's ok in some cases, I suppose. And as long as the game is really good otherwise, I don't mind having to stop to grind once of twice(like in the case of Mother3).
A cast of underage characters really chafes my underoos too. I don't care HOW badass a swordsman your father was, you can't just pick up a sword for the first time and suddenly defeat the evil empire's best swordsman. >:|
Boring battle systems are also a pretty big turn-off. I don't care if it's real-time, or turn-based, or ATB, or PCP, or QVC, just make it fun! That doesn't even mean changing the default system((in the case of RM games)although that'd help)! The enemies need to be interesting-- especially with turn-based battles--, which means as few enemies whose battle options consist of "attack, stronger attack, defend" as possible.
Little gameplay is also a pretty big no-no for me, but I won't go into my reasons, as Dadevster pretty much took the words out of my mouth.
Really, there are a lot of things that can go wrong with RPG's. It's the sort of genre, in my opinion, where a game has to get most things right if it's going to be fun. Of course, there are tons of exceptions to the things that I listed as disliking. Call me a hypocrite, but I like playing the older Dragon Quest games, despite them involving a lot of grinding with a boring battle system, and I really like (the first)Xenosaga, even though the gameplay to cutscene ratio is fucked up. I guess there isn't too much that can scare me off from an RPG, or any other kind of game for that matter. Unless it's excessively japfaggy.(hi the world ends with you)
A cast of underage characters really chafes my underoos too. I don't care HOW badass a swordsman your father was, you can't just pick up a sword for the first time and suddenly defeat the evil empire's best swordsman. >:|
Boring battle systems are also a pretty big turn-off. I don't care if it's real-time, or turn-based, or ATB, or PCP, or QVC, just make it fun! That doesn't even mean changing the default system((in the case of RM games)although that'd help)! The enemies need to be interesting-- especially with turn-based battles--, which means as few enemies whose battle options consist of "attack, stronger attack, defend" as possible.
Little gameplay is also a pretty big no-no for me, but I won't go into my reasons, as Dadevster pretty much took the words out of my mouth.
Really, there are a lot of things that can go wrong with RPG's. It's the sort of genre, in my opinion, where a game has to get most things right if it's going to be fun. Of course, there are tons of exceptions to the things that I listed as disliking. Call me a hypocrite, but I like playing the older Dragon Quest games, despite them involving a lot of grinding with a boring battle system, and I really like (the first)Xenosaga, even though the gameplay to cutscene ratio is fucked up. I guess there isn't too much that can scare me off from an RPG, or any other kind of game for that matter. Unless it's excessively japfaggy.(hi the world ends with you)