What is a cliché Story?

[Sol_Fury]

The true cliche stories are the ones that take a tried and tested idea, like the revival of an ancient evil that can only be stopped by gathering X artefacts, and stop there.
If you were to take that idea, and work on it some more, you could get a lot more depth out of it - the artefacts are not all the same thing, and one of them is the hero's girlfriend. To save the world, he has to sacrifice her. The artefacts take different forms each time they are used - a lesser villain, with nothing to do with the ancient evil, gathers them early on and uses them, you defeat him but you have to start your quest over and the artefacts aren't the same so you're at square one.
The ancient evil - what is it? You can give it more depth, a reason for doing what it does. Perhaps it is the remnant of a higher race that got left behind, and it merely sees humanity as pests infesting its world that need to be wiped out, so then the rest of its kind might return. Perhaps the "ancient evil" never existed, but is in fact a malfunctioning computer left behind by a more advanced race that was merely meant to study the development of humanity, but it broke down and started interfering in some way.


You can take those old cliches and add some stuff like that too them and make them new. The trick is to not be lazy with them. A cliche is not bad, it is only a problem if it is applied sloppily, cut and pasted from the grand book of ideas with no thought by the writer toward adapting it to make it his own.

 

[Kest]

Good job, Sol.

 

[Norris]

I guess I’ll have to throw in my two cents on this issue (again). I know I’ll probably be repeating the exact same things as I said before (again), so bear with me if I sound repetitive (haha...)

It’s just plain wrong to say that everything is cliché. Cliché is a label that (I feel) “should” placed on any story that retains FORMULISTIC qualities. Where the ease of predictability of what happens next borders along the lines of absolute certainty, and to change a story in an attempt to remove this predictability would in effect change its very nature, these are the things that makes a cliché what it is.

It is not enough to warrant such a label being slapped on a story just because it happens to be a spin-off, replication, or second/third/x-coming of something before. As I said it before, prevalence has no bearing in the determination of what is and isn’t cliché. Everything may be repetitive yes, but cliché? I don’t think so…

Also I consider the word cliché as a “classification”. All this talk about the revitalisation of cliché stories isn’t breathing life back into it. What such an action really aims to accomplish is a complete renovation of the story (i.e. change it’s very nature), to basically remove what makes it so cliché. And I would take such action as proof that clichés are something we all want to avoid. Such a revelation therefore makes it very difficult for me to understand logic behind this “clichés are okay if done right” mentality.

 

[Juuhou]

Meh, I consider cliche to be something used so often that it gets old. I think when you make a game, dont worry too much if its cliché or not. As long as you like it then by all means go for it. Im sure if you played RPGs before then you go through a run through of your story, you'll end up making changes to catch people off guard making it a decent game. Nowadays there isnt really any story which isnt cliché in some way or another. Just have fun with the story making it to your liking and who knows, youll find someone who likes the story as much as you do.

 

[Petros]

There's a large difference between Cliché and using archetype stories to back up a more modern version. Take Star Wars for example, the standard story behind that is ridicolously cliché, some random farm kid goes with his wise old mentor to save the princess, but it also had a deeper story behind the archetype. E.g. "I am your father", "I am your sister", "holy fucking shit did I just kiss my sister!?" "Who's that big walking carpet?" You get the picture. Infact my own story uses a similar archetype to create the basic story of the Knight who resuces the princess but it has a far more in-depth story than just the basis. If any story relies on just a basis then it's bound to be cliché because like Despain said, everything's already been done before, but if you take a larger story on the whole and only use the basis as an actual basis with added bits on to make it more indepth then the cliché archetype story becomes as original as that Arshes' Penis story.

 

[lunarea]

Another trap that a lot of game developers get into is having characters that are very stereotypical or based on popular game characters. And if the characters themselves are cliché, even an innovative story won't be as interesting. On the other hand, if you have unique characters, even the most basic story can be made interesting.

The story itself is always simple:
"There's a good guy and a bad guy. The bad guy does/threatens to do something horrible and the good guy finds some extraordinary way to stop him. The end."
What makes the difference aren't only the subtle concepts and differences like what the bad guy does, or what powers the good guy seeks, but also how their personality takes them through the story.

For example, amnesic characters that turn out to be the most powerful being of an ancient race has been done before. But what about amnesic character that turns out to be the villain's most ruthless general? Or amnesic character that turns out to be the king of a kingdom and needs to embrace that destiny?

This is all a part of character development, and by drawing references from what makes people around you unique, you can work on making your characters unique. And that alone can make your game great, even if the concept is cliché

 

[kaze950]

A parody game which has cliches on purpose

http://www.freewebs.com/rmxp3/pro.html#LegendofBlood


Also, using 1 or 2 cliches isn't bad. But a game full of them is

 

[Marcus]

But what about amnesic character that turns out to be the villain's most ruthless general? Or amnesic character that turns out to be the king of a kingdom and needs to embrace that destiny?

Have you ever played Arx Fatalis or Knight's of the Old Republic? Best amnesiac stories EVER because they have this really awesome twist you'd never see coming.

Personally, if you ask me, amnesiac stories are the best (and they haven't been done as many times as people THINK they have). All of the games I've played where the main character has amnesia like Shadowrun, Arx, KotOR, Planescape: Torment, and Breakdown have really rich atmospheres and detailed storylines. The thing with amnesia is that you have no information about the world you're in or the characters so instead of having to read a 50 page backstory, you're slowly introduced to the game's universe and characters one at a time instead of assuming you already know them.

 

[lunarea]

Have you ever played Arx Fatalis or Knight's of the Old Republic? Best amnesiac stories EVER because they have this really awesome twist you'd never see coming.

I had those and a couple of other games in mind, but I really didn't want to be too specific with examples so that people who haven't played the games can enjoy discovering the truth.

Personally, if you ask me, amnesiac stories are the best (and they haven't been done as many times as people THINK they have). All of the games I've played where the main character has amnesia like Shadowrun, Arx, KotOR, Planescape: Torment, and Breakdown have really rich atmospheres and detailed storylines. The thing with amnesia is that you have no information about the world you're in or the characters so instead of having to read a 50 page backstory, you're slowly introduced to the game's universe and characters one at a time instead of assuming you already know them.

It's one of the reasons that I mentioned amnesia as an interesting way to spruce up a character. But I wanted to urge developers to stay away from the explanation used in other popular games or in other popular characters because it, then, becomes a cliché.

Like, for example, if someone was to create a spikey blonde character with amnesia ... A good story would be that they turn out being the son of a great king. A clichéd story would be that they turn out being the clone of the bad guy with assimilated memories from a friend that died in some battle.

But when in doubt, amnesia is a great way to develop a character because the character grows as the story develops, and that's a pretty neat way to keep the player interested

 

[Daniel]

Why does it seem like everyone thinks that everything that happens in Final Fantasy 7 is cliche?

And about it being a good story where you are the son of a king or whatever, it is overused that the main character has royal blood, in my opinion.

 

[lunarea]

Why does it seem like everyone thinks that everything that happens in Final Fantasy 7 is cliché?

You missed my point

What happened in Final Fantasy 7 was very unique and it made it a very popular game. What I consider "cliché" is when people pretty much copy the well-known story of FFVII or when they copy the characters.

In other words ... Final Fantasy 7 =/= cliché
Copying the twists and turns of the Final Fantasy 7 story and renaming it into a different (probably unrelated) game = cliché

And I mean this because people would easily guess the big mystery and would become disinterested in the character.

And about it being a good story where you are the son of a king or whatever, it is overused that the main character has royal blood, in my opinion.

I guess that's a matter of opinion. I've found stories with characters discovering they're of royal blood more interesting and engaging than stories where characters discover they're a poor copy of a popular FF7 character. But that's just a matter of opinion

 

[Marcus]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. I've found stories with characters discovering they're of royal blood more interesting and engaging than stories where characters discover they're a poor copy of a popular FF7 character. But that's just a matter of opinion

it's kind of difficult not to copy ff7. most anime heroes tend to have blond hair and wield giant swords... COPY OF CLOUD. give a black man a gun and a foul mouth and you have barret. long haired pretty boy badguy with a massive sword and speaks in cryptic messages? sephiroth.

everything associated with what we come to expect in RPGs has been done to death already. every badguy wants to destroy the world and every hero wants to unhesitantly save it and put his life in danger for no real reason at all.

 

[Kest]

But what about amnesic character that turns out to be the villain's most ruthless general?

Been done before... one example.

Doesn't mean it's bad in itself, but yeah...

 

[benos]

"hi, i'm arshes, welcome to my rtp quest, enjoy it along with my friend gloria, while we go along fighting a demon that awakens from 10,000 slumber, which is why is confusing, yay!"

There is also:

Girl= has a father. (and even so if the mother had died)
Boy= has a mother. (and even so if the father had died or disappered though war)

Any bosses you fight against automatically makes you lose against him/her/it, because the hero/heroine/group is not strong enough.

"Everyone sucks but us." Normal guards and security forces are worthless – anyone sneaking into the players' (or their allies') stronghold / starship / city / whatever to cause trouble will get away with it or force the players themselves to deal with them.

in some rpgs, some humans don't have magical powers, but elves or demons do have powers that are more advanced.

there is also big plot twist that your father is actually the big bad demon that is trying to take over the world. omg. and your mother is a angel.

Your father has to always die in front of your eyes when confront the big baddie.

 

[AceJP]

every and all "cliche" stories can be turned into somthing good as long as there is good character development. Like the book The Hobbit. Its about going to take a trearure from a dragon, but you get to know all about the characters.
Develope your charcters, and the "cliche plot" will seem alot less cliche ^^,

 

[Rain]

Teenage boy, lives in village. Village get's burned to the ground by an evil clown or something else bizzare. Boy swears revenge and travels the world with some friends he makes along the way, He is a warrior (or something else with a sword attached.) he falls in love with a girl who is a white mage and eventually they slay the evil clown/wizard/Cliché.

 

[spudalesca]

I was in a written RPG once, I thought It had a great story. And nearly everything your mentioning in here, happened in that RPG.

You all ruined my day.

 

[lunarea]

I was in a written RPG once, I thought It had a great story. And nearly everything your mentioning in here, happened in that RPG.

You all ruined my day.

What you need to keep in mind, and what I've really been trying to stress, is that if the story is well-written and if the characters are unique, it doesn't matter whether the idea is new or old. It doesn't matter if a hundred other games have used it, nor if some people don't like it.

What matters is that a game is not a poor copy of another, where you feel like you're playing Chrono Trigger (for example) with the character named Onochr instead.

And besides, if it's enjoyable to you, why would it matter whether someone thinks it's cliché?

 

[Kest]

Speaking of clichés, reading through these articles on problems for the disposal of nuclear waste suddenly reminded me of this thread and the 'Evil Resurfacing' plot. A story involving this process going wrong in the future would make for a rather creepy setting, since it's not too farfetched...

 

[Danton LaTWOgne]

The term cliché in these forums, in my opinion, is very overused. Not to mentioned, often incorrectly used. But since we are in these forums; tipicaly it means cheesy.

For example, magical stones, or magic swords. Also, it could mean that it doesn't make sense; for example, someone doing something for no reason, like Marcus previously said, "taking over the world for no other reason than because he was evil". Also, be careful with the name you choose for you game. If you have a sharp storyline, and a solid game, if the name you chose was "Swords of Death", you will probably be criticized.

Stuff like that are to be avoided. Just try to make the game stay on topic, and not doze of with dozens of other things happening.

Hope it helps!


~ Scars