That's cliche! What to avoid in your rmxp game.

[EmuMaster2002]

Actually, it was Lord of the Rings that set up most of the cliches. Concepts like arrogant but prettyboy elves and antisocial dwarves have had over fifty years to blossom into cliche thanks to those books.

Also, the FFTA world seems to be made up of mostly children (or at least people 18-25), whereas FFT was the one with mature characters (they're two separate worlds, presumably.)

Finally, crystals are only considered cliche in some cases. In fact, crystals are one of the recurring themes in every -good- Final Fantasy game. It's basically what makes it Final Fantasy in the first place.

 

[Samboy]

Mind you many of the "supposed" cliches, such as characters smoking, have not blossomed into what they should've been. When was the last time the main character smoked? *holds tight and waits for contradiction*

 

[FlippyD]

Actually, it was Lord of the Rings that set up most of the cliches. Concepts like arrogant but prettyboy elves and antisocial dwarves have had over fifty years to blossom into cliche thanks to those books.

Also, the FFTA world seems to be made up of mostly children (or at least people 18-25), whereas FFT was the one with mature characters (they're two separate worlds, presumably.)

Finally, crystals are only considered cliche in some cases. In fact, crystals are one of the recurring themes in every -good- Final Fantasy game. It's basically what makes it Final Fantasy in the first place.

Since when have people over the age of 18 been considered children? FFTA had characters who where older and more mature, it was only the three main character kids that threw things off. And they were younger than most RPG protagonists are (the 14-16 range.)

 

[macchia]

Since mental maturity went down is when 18 year olds became children. However, in the context of a medieval setting, a 16 year old could even be considered an adult since their lifespan was around 45 if they were lucky and people were less concerned with 'protecting' them from reality.

 

[Lene]

I'm not going to get all anal regarding ages of party members in a game. Because RPGs aren't like TV Shows. Generic Hero doesn't learn about peer pressure and not taking drugs and Token Female Healer doesn't learn the dangers of eating disorders while they fight the Evil Overlord who rules over the Dark Dominion of Sex. The fact that Generic Hero is 19 doesn't really change much about the storyline...so I don't care.

From what I've seen, heroes tend to be in the 16-25 mark. Which isn't really "young" at all. It's more like young adult. Because frankly right now its expected that at 25 (up to mid thirties) you're either married or having children, or both! Society is slowly changing (people are waiting longer to settle down) but this is the norm.

How many settled adults can easily take off and save the world? They have bills to pay, mouths to feed, mortgages to pay off. If Batman wasn't a gazillionaire or whatever, you'd think he'd have time/money/ability to play Badass Vigilante? Hah!

Of course you could always wait until retirement, but by that time someone would be physically unable to handle the rigors of saving the world.

From that perspective, that middle area between prepubescent and settled adult is probably the best. They have just as much freedom as the settled adult, but they have less responsibility like the prepubescent.

 

[FlippyD]

Since mental maturity went down is when 18 year olds became children. However, in the context of a medieval setting, a 16 year old could even be considered an adult since their lifespan was around 45 if they were lucky and people were less concerned with 'protecting' them from reality.

lol, I can't argue with you there! ^_^

I think that most games are marketed to that market anyway, so it makes sense why that age-group is used. Though, I don't think it's become common-place enough to warrant it as a cliche. Maybe for console Japanese RPGs, but it varies wildly for all the other RPGs out there.

 

[macchia]

Women used to get married around 12-15, so people have loosened up if anything on how long you're allowed to live your life before you give it up for the soulsucking devildeed that is childcare. God I hate children.
Still, I'd like a game for once to show a hero acting like 16 year olds DID, not how they do. For a point of refference, read a letter written by a 16 year old soldier, even a confederate kid, from only 140 years ago and compare it to a modern 16 year old's. Back in the day, if you learned to write you made an effort not to be a fool.

 

[FlippyD]

*Off-Topic* Am I the only person in my age-group that doesn't hate children? O_o

EDIT: on-topic

So, I think you can avoid "cliches" in the most basic sense if you just write out your plot as a story and not concern yourself too much with the game part (obviously you have to keep in mind there will be dungeons and towns, but you have to make a decision to make those insulary to the plot or not.)

 

[Lene]

ixis- I don't hate children :D.
---------------
Regarding my last post:

Just saying that I don't see why it's so unrealistic to see the age group we usually see regarding heroes. Occasionally we'll have the 9 year old summoner who is the last of her race, and there's always usually an old, hardened veteran swordsman willing to serve as mentor for the hero, but I think that the reason we see a certain age group is a little more than just for marketing purposes.

 

[kaze950]

If it's in a midevial setting, anywhere 13+ is an acceptable age, since 13 year olds in those times were considered young adults (They had jobs, they fought, e.t.c.).

I don't like to have really young people, but most of the characters in my game are adults. The two 'main' characters of the party are 37 and 31 respectively, with party members ranging from 16 to 18 to early twenties to the age groups of the 'main' characters'.

 

[ImmuneEntity]

Cliches are really hard to avoid. Initially in my game, I had it start out with the player waking up from being unconcious, and I thought it was quite clever the way it all fit into the story. But after a while I realized this was way too cliched, so I decided to change it, for the better I think.

Personally I feel that my game's story is really unique, but when I release it, people will probably list off several cliches that I never even realized it had.

 

[Crystalgate]

And, so far, the common consensus on this thread is that cliches in themselves are not "evil" but must be approached in a fresh, new way. That being said, if people don't think cliches are so horrible, why is it that there are so many negative comments in project threads stating that their games are "too cliche"?

I suspect that the ones who complain that games are "to cliche" are not the same as the ones who say cliches can be good if used correctly. As for why cliches are looked upon so negatively by some I can think of a few reasons.

If you're playing soccer for example, what kind of referee do you think you will notice the most, the one who does a flawless job or the one that screws up frequently? Alas, the answer tends to be the second. When things works as they are supposed to, nobody thinks about it twice. The same can go for cliches, that is they are noticed when they deteriorates the plot rather than when they add to it.

Some may also use a more negative definition of what's cliche. Your definition includes "overly familiar or commonplace" which already sounds a bit on the bad side. Some may consider something cliche when the element has lost all of it's novelty.

Now there are reasons why cliches are used. The two I can think of right of the bat are:

1) The cliche works well.

2) The cliche is familiar and/or convenient.

Sometimes the reason is the second one, but definitely not the first one. Basically, the plot writer toke the easy way out. Considering the number of games being made, hardly all are written by a Shakespeare. For an incompetent plot writer, cliches can serve as a shortcut to get the story together. This can bring a lot of poorly implemented cliches into a game.

Then there's also the fact that what some considers good cliches, other may consider bad ones.

Anyway, as for what cliches to avoid, it's more a question of whether or not the cliche deteriorates the game than what cliche is used. Some examples includes:

The cliche annoys a lot of the target audience. A good example would be the male rescues female cliche. That cliche can easily come of as sexistic and offend a large percentage of the players. However, there are ways to implement that element so that less are likely to view it as advocating sexism. The most obvious one would be to also include female rescues male elements (just don't think "treating his wounds" or "giving him the will to keep living" is on par with "saving her from the scary monster/overlord"). There are plenty of other ways.

The cliche can let the player predict things that are supposed to be a surprise. Imagine you make a game where religion plays a central role and said religion is corrupted. Those who are experienced with RPGs will most likely right away when they notice that religion plays a central role suspect what plot twist is to come. If you built the game up in a way so that the revelation of the religion being corrupted is supposed to be a surprise, then you have a problem, because it won't be.

The cliche may not being seen as beliveable. A speach which is more or less in line of "during my travels I have learned the true meaning of love, frienship, courage and hope so I won't lose to a powerhungry man such as you" or an another attempt to pass of various virtues as more important in a combat situation than actual combat prowress can satisfy that criteria. An another common case is that a person, or a group of people respond to a situation in a way that poorly matches his/their personality.

 

[kaidus]

In my opinion there is absolutley nothing wrong with cliches, so long as you think of them by yourself. By this I mean not just throwing something in a game that you already saw in final fantasy, but something that from your perspective is completley original and it is a mere coincidence that it has been done over and over.