Suicidal ending

[lunarea]

I think that the hero death can be very difficult to pull off, especially if people like the hero. Some might even feel offended or betrayed by it. I know of a few people who don't like Final Fantasy 7 because of a particular scene, and others who found the later game/ending disappointing because of it.

If you do spend quite a bit of time building up a hero and having the audience identify with him/her, you better have a good reason for killing them off. If the death isn't justified, people will just end up leaving because they think your game sucks.

Why would killing yourself allow you to live with your friends for 40 - 60 years?

Maybe if your friends are ghosts or something?

 

[Twin Matrix]

Maybe if your friends are ghosts or something?

[Edited for spoilers.]

 

[lunarea]

It depends entirely on the rest of the game.

I know which concept you're talking about, though. I think that would be a perfectly acceptable and even somewhat sweet ending for it.

 

[Loofah]

Well this topic is dragging off into ghosts and crap.@_@. besides the only way for a hero to die is if they are some kind of emo, which most main heroes are these days which really pisses me off.

 

[Marcus]

You know what pisses me off? People who throw around the word "emo" as if they know what it means.

And how is it that a hero has to be "emo" to die? Death isn't prejudice and anyone that's not immortal is susceptible to it at any time. And if by "die" you meant "Suicide" that's also not true. The human psyche is weak and unpredictable. Even the strongest minded people can be disheartened or in extreme pain and in their mind "ending" the pain is the only viable option out.

It may be a "cowards" thing but given the fact that most main characters are humans, you should realize that it's only realistic to include people with fragile minds. I'm tired of playing games where the main character is a strong willed, unbreakable force who shrugs off death and pain. I don't know if you guys have ever seen anyone die in front of you but it's not a very pleasant thing and can instantly shatter even the toughest minds.

Death genuinely isn't good for a story unless it's done correctly but that's because people have this preconceived notion that all player characters must SURVIVE the entire story and I wish this expectation would die out. This is why I loved the ending to Shadow of the Colossus; beautiful in its execution and powerful in its message: Heroes are still humans; humans are arrogant and selfish but capable of redemption.

Yeah, go read Watchmen or beat Colossus and you'll experience some of the best in realistic depictions of "heroes." Hell, go read any greek epic like the Oddysee or the Illiad for some good heroes who display all sorts of emotions from selfishness to vengeance and spite. Even the Nibelungenlied had great heroes.

 

[Anglachel]

Marcus I think you will like my project then. Well at least what I planed for it. Deep, human, flawed characters. (Off topic- I've been meaning to play Colossus for a long time but have never got arouynd to it. Early game moster is great :P)

besides the only way for a hero to die is if they are some kind of emo

Excuse me? What? So only emos die?

I can see suicide being a good ending if it is done right. Although it is very different from sacrifice. Games, books, movies that make us FEEL are good whether people like it or not. People have a grudge against a game because the chacter died, but if it was a bad game with a bad story people simply wouldn't care. Therefore it is a testemant to the quality of the material. It has to be if it creates an attatchment to the characters.

 

[Kraft]

Suicidal?

Like in the end of pirates of the carribean 2, when Jack gets eaten by the Kraken?

Or a Suicide with a knife of a handgun?

 

[Loofah]

Like at the end of pirates of the carribean 2 and sorry I worded that phrase wrong with the emo what I meant to say was anyone who would just nkill themself to spend like 50 years with there friends is a little odd. Anyway I meant to say commit suicide.

And to Marcus, jese dude chill out...

 

[Twin Matrix]

anyone who would just nkill themself to spend like 50 years with there friends is a little odd.

Not if you haven't got anything to live for.

 

[Reives]

I can see suicide being a good ending if it is done right. Although it is very different from sacrifice. Games, books, movies that make us FEEL are good whether people like it or not. People have a grudge against a game because the chacter died, but if it was a bad game with a bad story people simply wouldn't care. Therefore it is a testemant to the quality of the material. It has to be if it creates an attatchment to the characters.

Aye, so the bottom line really is the good old 'depends on its execution'. The idea itself is pretty much as common as any other, but it's really up to you how good of an ending it is, as with most ideas of this genre.

 

[The Cry of Fallen Angels]

Actually, strong-willed heroes that can't feel pain and emotions and crap are the poor characters. I am very much of opinion that a strong will and a strong belief can be a good for a personage, but no man is a man without it's flaws, hell, even beauty isn't beauty without flaws.

A crying child isn't much of a pretty sight to behold, let alone to hear, but why do people care about the noisy kid then? They would feel bad about theirselves if they just left it (or good if they didn't), or just can't stand that sound. Results into, indeed, human nature equals to egocentric, as much as people deny it.

In short, the person who got the best point in this topic is Marcus.

 

[Valere]

Ok people I have to step in here cause this is starting to annoy me. Why are we all so obsessed with the character dying?

Yes he is going to die and yes its a sacrificial death that should lead to a moderately happy ending (I've had a few words with the author). I want to know why so many people want to take the will out of the hero? Speaking from experience here I get enough emotionally unstable people in my life without having to end up as one when I go to play a video game.

Emotion can be achieved without making the character this totally depressed loser you all seem to be insinuating (to those who arn't I apologise), you need a character who can show love and happiness and anger and sorrow; one that shows envy and pride and any other emotion the human mind can encompass.

The overall calibre of a game should not be desided by one moment within it and that is a lesson I will leave you all to think about.

 

[The Cry of Fallen Angels]

I am very much of opinion that a strong will and a strong belief can be a good for a personage, but no man is a man without it's flaws

As I believe the above post was also aimed at me.

 

[Loofah]

Ok I find this to be turning into a battle between good and emo (lol)

So I feel really bad about it.

I didn't really think Valere's post was aimed at you fallen angel and I'm sorry if it offended you in anyway.

So from what all you guys are saying is that the game makes the ending not the other way round and I think that you shall all be satisfied when I finially come around to releasing my game. Thanks for the comments:thumb:

 

[Reives]

Oh by the way, I think when people say "strong characters", it doesn't mean that they don't feel any emotions or distress. You can make a perfectly human and touching strong character as long as you show the internal moral vacillation they go through, while trying to hold their ground externally.

 

[Granas3 REMIXED]

I'm not too sure about suicide and final self-sacrifice. On the one hand, It's a real downer, and almost always seems like the writer couldn't think of anything else to do to make the ending good, but on the other hand, we have

Spoiler: FF6+HP7-Deathly HAllows

Celes' failed suicide attempt, which I just loved, altough a lot of that was probably the music, but it was stil a beuatiful sequence, but in deathly hallows, it would have been better if he had died and someone else finshed off voldemort, maybe neville, who would be most appropriate, and then had the remaining 30 odd pages about everyone dealing with that, rather than what did happen, which seemed really tacked on.

 

[Twin Matrix]

Granas, you just officially ruined Harry Potter 7 for me (I haven't even finished reading book 6 yet). Considering this topic is about

Spoiler

the main character sacrificing himself,

YAY, I now know the ending of HP7 without even reading whats inside the spoiler tags. Thxkbye. *kills herself*

 

[Reives]

Nu! It's not what you think!

 

[Twin Matrix]

Ah, I appreciate confusing me a lot. ^_^ Thank you. *bows* Now I'm confused about the ending of HP7 again, I shall have to avoid this specific topic. xD