RPG maker VX?

[Diedrupo]

You can just rename your tilesets so the correct ones show up for each map you work on. The problem is not using more tilesets, it's the fact that the passibility will be exactly the same for every one that uses the same tab. So a custom passibility system will likely have to be scripted in as well.

The workaround is pretty obvious. Make sure that your extra tilesets (the ones you are swapping to) match the passability of the tiles in the main tileset. Sure it's a lot of effort, but it's there for people who really want to do it and actually need it, instead of people who are lazy and just throw a lot of shit into their game because they can.

 

[Occupy Japan]

different environnements, and make them look NATURAL

A lot of the RMXP maps I've seen have been absolutely overcomplicated cluttered messes and I bet the people who made them were trying to make the environment look "natural". I'd also further bet that the fans of those cluttered mess maps are some of the ones at the forefront of the "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE 4 LAYERS!!!!" drama.

If 3 layers (you CAN use empty events as another layer, you know!) means that people will have to tone stuff down a little bit and that their maps won't look like their tileset exploded all over it, then I'm all for 1 less layer.

 

[lambchop]

I understand the move back to two layers... This should increase the FPS, but the thought of having 20 tilesets displayed on one page... I don't know, it seems like this would actually slow the game down. Maybe this new version would be best for Zelda style games?

 

[craybest]

that's just a matter of TASTES my friend, the difference is that with RMXP you can make BOTH plain suare maps like RMVX, or oversaturated maps like you say as some made with RMXP.
With VX you can ONLY and ONLY make square and plain looking maps, that look like a pokemon game.
I've seen PLENTY of good RMXP maps that aren't cluttered but that look better than anything that can be done with RMVX (unless again you use panoramas as a map)

 

[Yeyinde]

You can make the autotiles curved in RMVX, so you CAN make more "natural" maps.

 

[craybest]

a natural looking map is a LOT more than just rounded corners.
in vx you can't even use autotiles in a superior layer.
You people just keep saying that it can be done, then prove it to me, I want to see a map that looks natural made with VX, every screenshot I've seen looks square and plain.
I respect that some people dno't care much about graphics, but don't tell me that the mapping system ISN'T inferior to RMXP, that's all.

 

[Jennestia]

What I want to to know is, craybest...

Why do people need to prove anything to you when you made up your mind long ago that you won't bother with RMVX?

I truthfully don't understand..then again, I never fully understood that kind of thinking to begin with.

So enlighten me.

 

[Dirtie]

You can just rename your tilesets so the correct ones show up for each map you work on. The problem is not using more tilesets, it's the fact that the passibility will be exactly the same for every one that uses the same tab. So a custom passibility system will likely have to be scripted in as well.

The workaround is pretty obvious. Make sure that your extra tilesets (the ones you are swapping to) match the passability of the tiles in the main tileset. Sure it's too much effort, but it's there for people who really want to do it and actually need it, instead of people who are lazy and just throw a lot of shit into their game because they can.

Fixed :P

But honestly, if you had a project with 10 tilesets assigned to the same tab, you'd go out of your way editing them just so the passability matches up on all of them? And re-editing every time you wanna change something?

I appreciate that the limits imposed in RMVX require a change of how things are done, but since we're talking about overcoming those limitations in this case, I don't think that argument really applies.

 

[jbart321]

Craybest, this program is obviously directed toward newer game makers.  If you don't want to use it then don't, why keep bitching about it?  Yes, we know you can't make detailed maps, you have told us now, what 10 times?  If that is the only reason to not use it, then that is your opinion, but I like it.  It allows very simple map making without wasting hours to perfect a complex map.

 

[Diedrupo]

Fixed :P

But honestly, if you had a project with 10 tilesets assigned to the same tab, you'd go out of your way editing them just so the passability matches up on all of them? And re-editing every time you wanna change something?
I appreciate that the limits imposed in RMVX require a change of how things are done, but since we're talking about overcoming those limitations in this case, I don't think that argument really applies.

This was assuming you're making the extra tilesets from scratch or compiling them from scratch, not reusing existing tilesets. If you're compiling them from scratch, matching the passability is a no-brainer to do at that point.

If you think it's too much work, well, too bad I guess? I mean, it's hardly that much work in the long term. Most people with huge projects spend over 300+ hours on their projects, and compiling tilesets would take up less than 10 hours of that.

 

[Jennestia]

Craybest, this program is obviously directed toward newer game makers.  If you don't want to use it then don't, why keep bitching about it?  Yes, we know you can't make detailed maps, you have told us now, what 10 times?  If that is the only reason to not use it, then that is your opinion, but I like it.  It allows very simple map making without wasting hours to perfect a complex map.

My only guess is..he's the type of person that wants to "prove" something is bad and that no one should use it, or wants to prove others "wrong", which is pointless when he doesn't even care for RMVX yet he's spending so much time bitching about it and waiting around for people who like the maker to prove it isn't "bad"..which, I would assume is what people in the western world would call..a hypocrite?

 

[Twin Matrix]

RMVX... Three layers. lol~*pass*

 

[hatred106]

My only guess is..he's the type of person that wants to "prove" something is bad and that no one should use it, or wants to prove others "wrong", which is pointless when he doesn't even care for RMVX yet he's spending so much time bitching about it and waiting around for people who like the maker to prove it isn't "bad"..which, I would assume is what people in the western world would call..a hypocrite?

Lol Raz that's not the correct use of hypocrit. If he were a hypocrit he would be talking down the program and those that like it yet still use it himself. Such as a smoker telling another smoker that they are killing themselves by smoking. I could be wrong, but I'd say he is not using the program. (I don't mean this in any kind of bad way if it comes across like that, just a simple correction.)

You guys could easily stop his responding and repetition by letting his view on the program be as it is and not try to point out things that bothered him that don't bother you, or that can be "worked around". Then again this is a discussion so him repeating his views and you guys repeating yours is just going to be a giant never ending circle.

 

[Sailor Taurus]

Craybest, this program is obviously directed toward newer game makers.  If you don't want to use it then don't, why keep bitching about it?  Yes, we know you can't make detailed maps, you have told us now, what 10 times?  If that is the only reason to not use it, then that is your opinion, but I like it.  It allows very simple map making without wasting hours to perfect a complex map.

My only guess is..he's the type of person that wants to "prove" something is bad and that no one should use it, or wants to prove others "wrong", which is pointless when he doesn't even care for RMVX yet he's spending so much time bitching about it and waiting around for people who like the maker to prove it isn't "bad"..which, I would assume is what people in the western world would call..a hypocrite?

I think you're being majorly unfair. You yourself, despite switching to RMVX, still feel the need yourself to constantly reference how XP has 'cluttered maps', that the third layer is useless, and how people with XP are mostly just throwing random crap onto the map to make it look nice. Complaining about someone insulting VX when you yourself are insulting XP, THAT is a hypocrite.

EDIT: And don't forget that fogs are only eyecandy for hiding shoddy mapping.  :tongue:

Also, if someone were to keep saying to me "I have a cat made out of gold", I would ask for proof too. If you can make a VX map using tilesets that looks just as good as these 'cluttered' and 'purely eyecandy' maps of RMXP, then prove us all wrong and make us look like twats for questioning you, but don't complain to us just because someone asked you to back up your claims.

 

[craybest]

don't get me wrong Razaroic, I don't want people to stop using RMVX, if you want to use it, go ahead, what I'm saying is that some people here claim that the 3 layes was useless and was only made to make cluttered maps, well I disagree, I think some very nice maps were made with it, and you just have to accept that RMVX's map system is inferior. that doesn't mean you can't like the program. but don't come her saying that it's a "good" thing they removed the 3rd layer or restricted the tilesets, that's all.

 

[Jennestia]

Sailor, point out where I insulted XP?

Because last I checked, I said the "complicated and complex" maps people brag about in XP are usually nothing more than cluttered maps

 

[Sailor Taurus]

I don't mean just you, but it's the common arguments said by those for VX.

The third map is useless, people just use it for eyecandy.
Fogs are only used to hide bad mapping.
All of the pretty maps are just cluttered.*

Amongst others. It seems like the majority of VX converters are trying to justify any difference between VX and XP, whether it matters or not.

All i'm saying is that you shouldn't complain about the fact that some of us want to see if VX is capable of anything we've seen in XP so far. It takes two to argue (unless you talk to yourself, but I think we've gone past crazy already  :wink: ). Don't start going around calling people hypocrites when you VX people aren't exactly angelic either.  :grin:

I think it's best if we just keep it to a 'debating' level. I myself would still like to see just how complex VX maps can get. After finding out that you're stuck with one tileset throughout the whole game (and no doubt you're gonna need to use the rest of those tabs up to keep each place looking unique), i'm quite skeptical as to how detailed maps can get using the tileset system.

*And while I admit there are loads of people out there who just throw on random decorations they downloaded from other places to make it look pretty; But there are people, like those I posted screenshots of earlier on in this topic, who use this apparent 'clutter' to add detail and life to each of their maps, making each one look distinct and beautiful without any repetitiveness. It's not really fair to look over these maps due to the n00bs out there (which, unfortunately, every Maker program comes pre-equipped with).

 

[jbart321]

One thing I always liked in the other makers was being able to copy and paste, but I can't find that function in this maker.  Is it there or not?  Thats gonna suck if not cause it can save some time on certain maps.

 

[Yeyinde]

With RMVX, if you copy a tile that has the two layers in use, it copies both layers. So, just making a large selection has the same effect of copying.

 

[hatred106]

Bah I cant take all these people saying every pretty map created with XP is "cluttered" it's a complete lie. Life is diverse and "cluttered" as you put it atleast when you look at it on a human scale. When I have my basic maps made and especially towns I think of what kind of things would happen in towns and implement as many as I can to fill in empty space and make it seem like the person is in a actual town and not some desolate block world. When you have more layers you have more ways to overlap things and make them interact differently than they did on other maps. Which gives you more diverse visuals in your game, which games need.

I understand where you are coming from saying that it can make for trouble with the player having passability issues and stuff but that is why we test our games and as you become a better mapper it happens less. Its a small issue compared to having realistic maps or not, and it eventually isn't an issue anymore than it is for every game.   :rock: