Pay Attention to Graphic Design Please *flutters eyelashes*

[hima]

I've never heard about Comic Sans being so bad. Thanks for the info Really helpful information here. Oh, and I really like the colorlover website. I'm not the best when it comes to choosing color and the site you gave will definitely help me.

I don't want to go over  sugar coat/being harshly honest thingy. It's boring, to be honest. Ven made many solid points here. I'm sure she doesn't expect everyone who read this to follow everything she tells them to do. When it comes to design, some rules can be broken if appropriate.

 

[Venetia]

Yes. Thank you hima :D

 

[Doctor]

I was kidding when I said "you elitist bitch". Thought it was obvious. You know I'd never be that mean to you *puppy dog eyes*.

The main point of my post was that you did make a very good comments, but it would be nice to have another opinion.

I think people get so sensitive about sensible, decisive and explained critique and recommendations because they're just so rare. With only one post of this quality, and no other to present a counterpoint in a similarly well thought-out manner, they simply feel their creativity limited, and resort to argue back themselves.

But, with knowledge more limited than yours on the subject, they have to argue back on different avenues, such as posting style, to feel they're gaining terrain.

On a side note, being nice gets you a long way. You may feel ignored when posting nicely, but it's only because people don't get irritated and wish to kill you in your sleep after you post.

 

[Crystalgate]

I'm everything but graphically focused, but I think I can relate. My strong area is stating and it has several times happened that I've looked at the status menu in another person's game and thought "what the heck does that person think he's doing?"

When it comes to graphics, I think the first priority is to make sure things are looking bad (unless of course a particular object has to look bad for story reasons) and then making things look particular pretty is the second priority. If for example the maps are looking bad, having really well drawn characters won't help much. A person with a lot of skill in graphics could easily spot something related to that subject she/he registers as bad that another person wouldn't notice. The problem is that while the lack of something particular good in a certain area just means that the game has to compensate in another area, an aspect registered as bad is actually detrimental to the game. Just imagine a game (not necessarily an RPG) that has great gameplay, but almost nonexistent story and compare that with a game that which again has great gameplay, but the story is instead of absent actually very bad and you can't skip the cut-scenes.

 

[second_crimson]

I do agree with a lot of what you say here. I just have one difference of opinion. I don't think Lucida Console is really that bad. It's basic, yes...but it's perfectly readable and each letter is easily distinguishable.

 

[dadevvtsvre]

All of Venetia's points are legit and great for people who need some help or tips on design. I especially agree on the text thing. It actually almost seems more like a tutorial than a thread in RM Discussion. Anyway, good tips for people unsure about this kind of stuff.

 

[Juno]

This post has some really helpful information, as well as some valuable insight, from the perspective of someone in Graphic Design.  Many of us would do well to apply it, or at least not ignore the perspective offered.

I will say, however, that the blanket statements about which fonts are good and which are bad is a bit myopic.  There aren't ANY fonts that will ALWAYS be good for a project.  (Though Wingdings comes to mind as one that would always be BAD).  With each game comes a unique overall look, and the font should match.  This is true for any artistic medium, whether it's a video game, a one-sheet flyer, or a business presentation.

Also, most people don't choose fonts after reading a history lesson, they do so based purely on how the font looks.  It's a choice based on the intrinsic value.  And if a font is popular, there may be a good reason for that... (Yes, sometimes the "tyranny of the majority" will put an awful font into overuse, but this isn't always the case.  Sometimes, it just looks nice, even if a flunkie at Microsoft made it).

@Venetia: I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, by the way.  I DON'T WANT to be one of those people that just says "meh, I like it the way I have it" when someone gives critique.  I'd rather generate purposeful dialogue.

 

[Glitchfinder]

I want to start off by saying that Venetia has a lot of good points. But, I also want to say that most of the replies to this thread have been pointless responses not to the points that Ven is making, but to the way she said it, as well as to the argument in general. I agree that although the game creator has the freedom to choose what they put in their game, if they ask for advice, they'd better listen to it. I also admit that some of the fonts that Ven posted as bad are not neccessarily bad in and of themselves, but have been overused in certain contexts, and have gained certain connotations and subtle meanings with each use. For example, Comic Sans would be perfectly good, if it wasn't used by ever ten-year-old to make their powerpoints and homework look better. Because of that, comic sans will make a game look more childish. If that is the impression you want your game to have, feel free to use it. Otherwise, don't use it. Another perfectly good font is Papyrus, which I have seen on way too many homemade advertisements, lost pet posters, and othed amateur work. Because of its prevalent use in work that is generally not that good in quality, and work that is so standardized it makes me want to cry, Papyrus has begun to make things look unproffesional. Now, that doesn't mean you can't use it. Itg just means that you'll look like an amateur when you do. The same thing applies to many fonts. And, the same thing applies to the rest of the easy-to-read fonts ven posted as no-no's. Also, if you want to be creative, scour the net for simple, free fonts that are easy to read, and yet still unique. It is easier than you think. We don't want Helvetica, but we also don't want something that doesn't fit the project, or that ise just hard to read. As a final note, I would like to add that although I am not a professional graphi designer, I do have a touch of the graphic sense, and can generally tell when something doesn't fit, or doesn't work.

 

[The Panda]

Well I honestly don't see what everyone's issue is, it's a great guide with a lot of great points. I didn't know about 99% of the things Venetia stated here here so I'm VERY glad she posted this! And the Colorlover website is amazing, palettes and colors are something I've been struggling with so I'm absolutely loving this.
Sure she may have posted a bit more harshly than she normally does, but in all of the time I've been here(and I've been here a long ass time) I've always thought Ven's been the nicest member on here and is one of the people on here who I respect most, so if she decides to be a bit more harsh for once to get her point across than more power to her!
I agree 100% that if people post looking for critique that they shouldn't ignore it when people give it. They need to consider suggestions and not just throw all advice out the window because they think what they're using looks cool, if you've got 10 people telling you to change your font and you don't have a better reason then that then take a hint and change it.
Anyway, thanks bunches for the tips Ven! This helped me out a ton and hopefully people will stop being stupid and accept your points rather than ignoring them and complaining to start eDrama ^_^

 

[$t3v0]

M-m-m-mmy logo ;-;

Whatever happened to the guy that requested that ........  :huh:

 

[Booshnig]

I'm taking a few classes on and related to graphic design, and I agree with some of the things you brought up in this post. However, you presented them poorly, which is kind of ironic.
As far as comic sans, I think it looks alright in "Chasing Citsuaki," in some places. The font's effectiveness all depends on it's usage and the user's knowledge of typography - and for most people who lack this knowledge, it's better to simply say "try to avoid these fonts if you're on the casual side" than to say "NEVAR USE THESE FONTS EVAR."

 

[Zodiac]

Ven shouldn't have to defend herself or how she came across to anyone. To echo what's most people have been saying, the OP made good points and introduced a lot of good ideas. I don't even mind the list of Good/Bad fonts. Although I concur with Juno in that a font should reflect the game, so a humorous game could use Comic Sans and it would be fine and make sense.

But the important idea is that anyone who puts their game out into the internet, for people to comment, critique and ultimately play and enjoy, should take measures to consider their audience and not say "well it's my game, so w/e"-which is simply just a cop-out.

 

[Mascarpone]

@ first post: A-fucking-men.

@ the wankers: grow a pair.

 

[Rayne Aven]

It's funny, in my Intro to Digital Media class (basically Photoshop 101) today, my professor decided to teach us "Graphic Design 101 in an hour," and, you know what, he said pretty much everything Venetia said about fonts. He even concluded the lecture with "Friends don't let friends use Comic Sans." He said that the reason Comic Sans doesn't work is because it's a sans serif font, which means that it's generally used for a lot of text, but it's also a "playful" font, which pains the eyes when used for multiple lines of text.

 

[Axerax]

It's funny, in my Intro to Digital Media class (basically Photoshop 101) today, my professor decided to teach us "Graphic Design 101 in an hour," and, you know what, he said pretty much everything Venetia said about fonts. He even concluded the lecture with "Friends don't let friends use Comic Sans." He said that the reason Comic Sans doesn't work is because it's a sans serif font, which means that it's generally used for a lot of text, but it's also a "playful" font, which pains the eyes when used for multiple lines of text.

Really just about any graphic design teacher will tell you that. Even-more-so a teacher who focuses on Logo Design. In real logo design, most people actually don't use fonts they find. Some make their own or edit other ones using vector programs and customizing the font to be unique.

However, let's take the idea, would you read a book in comic sans? I know I wouldn't I'd get bored and want to do something more interesting. But in the same sense, I don't want to sit there and read some boring font style for hours on end, finding a happy medium that it is readable and bearable is a key in game design. I can't tell you how much I LOATHED the font that Oblivion used, i got so bored, that I eventually figured stuff out on my own through exploration. The game was good, the font sucked.

 

[CeruSkye]

As long as you can read the font, I don't have a problem with it. But Ven is right on many points.
I'm a less is more kinda person though. So when someone uses easy to read fonts that are overly dynamic, I get pissed off whilst playing the game. It's distracting, and kills the dialogue experience. Of course, that is only my perspective on things.

And Venetia is the sweetest topic whore I know so stop calling her a bitch!!!!!!!!!