Custom graphics

[Ellie]

Let's say you have a limited timeframe, ability, or budget: which would you choose, if you wanted to have "custom graphics" for your game:

1. Completely homemade, but with limited animation
2. Premade graphics by somebody else, but with animation and heavily edited to your purpose

Assuming you had to choose one or the other. Basically, would you rather (either making or playing) have a game with limited animation but which was entirely custom, or greatly animated / scene fitted but using pre-existing resources?

 

[Erichermit]

Truly it depends on how much I have seen the other graphics. In almost all cases, I'd take no.2. However, I honestly would probably take Option 1 is the only choice for "Premade" graphics was RTP. That is only because of how accustomed I am to the RTP. For most players (probably not yet accustomed to RTP) then number 2 would probably be best in all cases.

The reason for number 1 to be better than number 2 is the aspect of uniqueness. Having unique graphics is refreshing from a developer / player perspective. However, it is likely that not enough players will recognize the premade graphics for this to really matter. In this case, whichever graphics are higher quality will be best, which I assuming is option 2.

 

[Perihelion]

Unless you have a budget, do not do not do not try to make your graphics from scratch unless your game is very limited in scope. Not only will what you produce most likely be worse than the RTP unless you're prepared to spend a ton of time on it, but it just isn't going to happen as a hobbyist. Finishing a game at all is hard enough; making the graphics yourself as well is a huge undertaking and makes the whole endeavor twice as hard.

There's traditionally been a lot of hate on the RTP in the RM community, but no one outside of the RM community recognizes it or cares. There is absolutely no reason not to use existing high-quality graphics you already have access to unless they really don't fit your needs.

 

[coyotecraft]

This is giving me a hard time. How exactly are you using the term "limited animation"?
Anime uses "limited animation" by reusing the same character animations on different backgrounds. But in that sense, its more flexible because its not a one-time use.

Homemade but limited. As in a specific function?
Premade, but also tailored for a specific function?
can. not. compute. :robot:

 

[noise shaman]

There's traditionally been a lot of hate on the RTP in the RM community, but no one outside of the RM community recognizes it or cares.

this is changing. esp now that its on steam and growing. people recognize rtp these days and will call you out on it.

anyways it's kinda hard for me to answer this hypothetical because i can and do make my own graphics :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:

 

[Perihelion]

anyways it's kinda hard for me to answer this hypothetical because i can and do make my own graphics :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:

Yeah, and how many games have you finished? :P I can't think of a single (long) RM game with fully custom graphics that got released, but I can think of plenty of vaporware titles that tried it and failed. It's different if you're doing a large-budget commercial project, of course, but I don't think custom graphics are worth the effort for the hobbyist when finishing a game at all is already such a daunting task.

 

[coyotecraft]

I'd have to disagree with you, Peri. I'd say the visuals are a big part in game design. If you're just making another side scroller, fighting game, or rpg and not coming up with new concepts. Custom graphics would be the only thing worth doing in my mind.
I could recreate pac-man, but if I wasn't making new graphics for it why would I want to?

Lately, I've been thinking pre-made graphics are actually stunting the rm community.

 

[noise shaman]

anyways it's kinda hard for me to answer this hypothetical because i can and do make my own graphics :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:

Yeah, and how many games have you finished? :P I can't think of a single (long) RM game with fully custom graphics that got released, but I can think of plenty of vaporware titles that tried it and failed. It's different if you're doing a large-budget commercial project, of course, but I don't think custom graphics are worth the effort for the hobbyist when finishing a game at all is already such a daunting task.

i'm working on a game now that has funding and has already been approved for steam.

yeah it's not worth it for a hobby generally, but if i hadn't spent years doing it as a hobby i wouldn't be able to do what i do now for profit.

Lately, I've been thinking pre-made graphics are actually stunting the rm community.

super true. i've been saying this for years. bring it up on the official rmweb forums tho and you get banned

 

[StrawberrySmiles]

I would have to say that graphics pay a big part in a game's atmosphere - part of the reason I couldn't take a game like Final Fantasy VII THAT seriously.

That being said, considering that people using something like RPG Maker are just messing around, then graphics won't matter too much. I have seen some screenshots from others using RTP graphics, but they were so prettied up it made me love it.

While in the process of making Ghost Shards, Star and I realized we needed tiles that did not exist in the RTP. I told him to just edit some for now and go back later because I knew if he attempted custom graphics right then, the game would be unconsciously dropped.

That happened exactly.

I think... it would be easier to get the core of the game finished before doing the graphics.

I could do graphics myself, but they might not be that good.

 

[Perihelion]

I'd have to disagree with you, Peri. I'd say the visuals are a big part in game design. If you're just making another side scroller, fighting game, or rpg and not coming up with new concepts. Custom graphics would be the only thing worth doing in my mind.
I could recreate pac-man, but if I wasn't making new graphics for it why would I want to?

Lately, I've been thinking pre-made graphics are actually stunting the rm community.

I agree, visuals are a big part of game design, and you should definitely make your own if it's feasible for your particular project. I'm saying specifically for large-scale RPGs (which require many more assets than other genres) being made as a hobby, it doesn't make sense to sprite fully custom graphics. Note that the issue isn't so much the graphics themselves but rather the size of the game. It's totally possible to sprite your own graphics for an hour-long game that takes place in one location and only has a few characters, but everyone in the RM community wants to make their own FF6 or whatever, which is just not feasible as a one-man hobby project. Any discussion about making your own graphics needs to go hand in hand with a discussion about scope. I personally think there's no point in starting a game you know you'll never finish, and for certain types of people making certain types of games, you need to use the RTP if you want to finish your project.

tl;dr: Should we encourage people to make their own graphics? Sure, but only if we also encourage them to make small games.

 

[coyotecraft]

The other side, would you rather play a game...It depends on what light it is shown in. How it is presented. Custom graphics go a long way for games made within forum communities because I don't have to tell you guys that premade graphics are the norm. Its surpassing expectations.
But if I see an amateur game in a professional setting I just want to slap someone. I don't care if it's free, those fan-made dragon ball fighting games that use sprites from different sources and Naruto and Bleach crossovers do not belong in the chrome's web store.

 

[Perihelion]

The other side, would you rather play a game...It depends on what light it is shown in. How it is presented. Custom graphics go a long way for games made within forum communities because I don't have to tell you guys that premade graphics are the norm. Its surpassing expectations.
But if I see an amateur game in a professional setting I just want to slap someone. I don't care if it's free, those fan-made dragon ball fighting games that use sprites from different sources and Naruto and Bleach crossovers do not belong in the chrome's web store.

Coyote, the point I'm making is that attempting to make fully custom, high-quality graphics for your large-scale hobby game is going to result in your game not being finished. There's no point in your game standing out if there's no game. Should we criticize people for using the RTP or other free assets when there's zero chance of them finishing their game otherwise? I don't think so. This is a community of hobbyists, not professionals. Sure, I'd like to see more high-quality, visually stunning games, but I would also like to see more complete games.

 

[coyotecraft]

A complete game is not always a successful game. Any sense of accomplishment from finishing will fade. In the end, what difference does it make if a game is ever completed? I used to torture myself about not completing projects. But I finally managed to put things in perspective. I finished a comic, something I always wanted to do, and wondered a year later where I would be if I hadn't finished it; probably kicking myself over it. But the reality is that I improved so much afterwards that the comic is now an embarrassment and I regret it ever posting it online.

I think it's a mistake to tell people something is good enough. But...I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it. I think we should criticize and communities should have standards.
Yes, the RTP is fine for hobbyist. But you'd be surprised how easily people jump from making a game for fun to making a game for profit with delusions of starting a game studio. I blame the staff of another "official" forum for putting the idea into peoples heads and playing them for chumps.

 

[noise shaman]

I think it's a mistake to tell people something is good enough. But...I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it. I think we should criticize and communities should have standards.

agreed and disagreed.

i'm the kind of guy who agrees that nothing should ever be "good enough". i'll critique everything and expect others to do the same to any word i produce. it's a constant uphill climb and i don't believe in ceilings.

but that's big picture.

when you're making a project, you HAVE to have a "it's good enough" mentality with some things. otherwise it will never be finished and it will never go anywhere. you could spent two weeks making the absolutely perfect sprite for some random NPC, or you could spend a couple of hours on ity, decide it's "good enough", and then get fifteen more done.

 

[Perihelion]

A complete game is not always a successful game. Any sense of accomplishment from finishing will fade. In the end, what difference does it make if a game is ever completed? I used to torture myself about not completing projects. But I finally managed to put things in perspective. I finished a comic, something I always wanted to do, and wondered a year later where I would be if I hadn't finished it; probably kicking myself over it. But the reality is that I improved so much afterwards that the comic is now an embarrassment and I regret it ever posting it online.

Sure, the first thing you make in any category probably won't be any good because you learn so much along the way. But finishing things is a skill that needs to be learned like any other, particularly with game development, which is very complex and time-consuming. Not only do you need to learn all of the ins and outs of what it takes to make an entire game, but you also need to develop discipline and work habits. So finishing a small project means you have a better chance of finishing a bigger project. Even if your game is bad, you can learn from it and do better in the future.

Also, I really don't get the point of even talking about quality if you're not planning on finishing a project. If you enjoy game development as a hobby and don't care if you produce anything, that's fine, but then why does it matter if your graphics are nice or not? So people can come into your project thread and tell you how nice your screenshots are? What's the point of that?

I think it's a mistake to tell people something is good enough. But...I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it. I think we should criticize and communities should have standards.
Yes, the RTP is fine for hobbyist. But you'd be surprised how easily people jump from making a game for fun to making a game for profit with delusions of starting a game studio. I blame the staff of another "official" forum for putting the idea into peoples heads and playing them for chumps.

Okay, but people making bad commercial games with the RTP is a separate issue from whether hobbyists should use it or not. Also, again, my core point is that it's not the use of custom graphics that determines whether a game gets finished but rather its scope. We can and should encourage people to make short games with quality custom graphics; we just need to be realistic about what one person can accomplish in their free time.

 

[Erichermit]

While a bad game on the web might be an embarrassment, I think it's basically always better to have put something out than nothing. A bad game will eventually be forgotten and thrown into obscurity. Not releasing at all will do the same. In fact, the act of releasing is often a learning process in itself, and I'd hope you go through it at least once before you release your now "serious" project. You can receive a lot of valuable feedback by releasing your not-yet-perfect game too.

I'm not even going to go into the problem that is it being impossible to actually make a game as perfect as you want it to be, especially as a one man army. Even working in the industry, it's important to know when to cut a feature, when to keep one, and when to just release anyway. Now is a great time to learn it and get used to that idea.

I agree with Perihelion most of all though. The question should be less about "How much custom stuff should I make?" and more "Where can I reduce the scope?" Nobody needs another hundred-hour behemoth of badly done RTP. A 30-minute game bleeding with originality is much more appealing. In fact, you'll have more people play a shorter and more impactful game anyway! Not everyone has the time anymore for these Final Fantasy wannabees.

I say this as a hypocrite, guilty of RTP-graphic behemoth rpgs.