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Annoying Characters

I was talking about movies, too. And books and TV, everything.

And as a mod, you should be helping in the fight to end all disrespect. Characters ARE real people the instant they're given "life", so they deserve respect as well since the story isn't the same without them.
 
Okay, now I think you're being sarcastic. At least, I hope you are.

Sephiroth7734 said:
And as a mod, you should be helping in the fight to end all disrespect. Characters ARE real people the instant they're given "life", so they deserve respect as well since the story isn't the same without them.

Do you realize how unintentionally funny that is?

We can't even end disrespect for a lot of real people, I'm not worried about fantasy characters. Maybe if all the civil rights problems involving actual human beings are solved one day, we can worry about that.

What you should be aiming for is to discourage rudeness/trolling/flaming etc. But there's no rule anywhere saying that you have to respect everything you see. Doesn't work like that. The fact that I need to explain this is kind of shocking to me.
 
I'm just saying that if a single character is removed from a story, the feeling it conveys changes. They're all important, so no matter how many times I say this, that won't change.

The sentence "Every character is important to the story" is not an opinion, it's a fact.
 
I should be asking you that question. Even if a character doesn't have any lines, even if they're a random person whose graphic has been re-used, they're improtant to the story. They may not be part of the plot or any of the main characters' backgrounds, but they add to the atmosphere.

*sigh* Making you people understand is going to take forever...
 
Well, without that wire, your speakers wouldn't perform the same function, would they?

Let's take an example of a random NPC. The soldiers that stand guard at the entrance to Treno in FF9. They DON'T SAY ANYTHING, EVER. They just stand there. However, the fact that they are there instills into the player's mind "This city is rich enough to have guards?" or "This city's crime rate is so bad they need guards everywhere?"

It works like that. Just a character's presence is enough to help the player understand their surroundings, and the essence of which the programmers worked so hard to plan.
 
Let's end the discussion here for all our sakes.

I think we all agree that details go a long way towards making any work of art memorable, but to demand respect for these things is really a questionable use of time and energy. There really shouldn't be any concern for hurt feelings if not everyone extravagantly worships these details or characters. I assure you, these pixels will carry on.
 
im not being funny but how can you respect something that is entirely fictional and is pt there for the soul purpose of creating a reaction from its target audience?
 
Because, well.... Think bout it, in a real city, the way someone is going to act is usually a result of their surroundings. When you first enter a city, the feelings people have can vaguely indicate that SOMETHING in that area made them feel that way.

As a video game player, you have the opportunity to search for that thing that made them feel that way. Upon finding it, you further understand why they act the way they do. Every new element like this you find further helps you understand the complexity of this new area's individual culture.

Every person is important in real life, right? What would the story be like if one of these NPCs was the main character? Entirely different, but STILL a story nonetheless. Your lives are more interesting than you may think. If someone turned your life into a game, it would be most likely be fun because of the impossible level of complexity in the storyline.
 
yeah but what im saying it will have no bearing on reality if its replaced by something else lol
who cares if there is a busty wench in a game that offers you a bed for the night?
sure little things are amusing and add to the story but to respect every little thing? you will be hoping lol
 
That's the same with ALL media. Propose a probable argument, please.

Who cares if anything that happens in a game doesn't affect your real life? That still doesn't affect the feeling a game's world should convey.
 
well if you agree that they dont affect real life, then why should we respect every npc?
every character?
even if they could have been written so much better?
even if they're portrayal is completely misinterpreted by the audience?
and with that the delivery of the character is deemed as a failure?
what if the character that was supposed to be loved just gets under your skin and causes the audience to despise this character?
respect that?
i think not
 

the7k

Member

Well, if we are extending this beyond games and delving into movies and other media, then there would be a long list of characters that annoy me.

First, Naruto. Not just the main character, but almost all of them. 3/4ths of them are just archetypes, and they didn't go beyond that. Although, I suppose when the first issue introduces about 15 characters and it just continues to grow, expecting character development is a foolish thing to do.

Linck and Maeter from Eureka Seven. They didn't show up enough for a while to be annoying, but toward the end, it was just them, Maurice, Eureka and Renton. Their constant crying and whining reminded me of why I hate kids.

As for fictional characters deserving respect, I don't even think most real people deserve respect, much less figments of their imaginations.

You respect a character designer for making an interesting looking character. You respect an author imbuing that character with a personality. You don't respect the fruits of their labor. Surely, if said character is very well done, you will invest emotional attachment to them, but if you begin to believe they are just as much alive as you and me...

What's more, you are saying every character demands respect? Some nameless guard you fight and kill in one hit contributes nothing to a story. I've yet to see a fan club for the first two Shinra soldiers that Cloud killed in FFVII, and I'm sure I never will.
 
Annoying characters have their place, but too annoying and they turn me off of something. Evangelion was a hard anime for me to watch, thanks to Shinji's attitude. Gurren Lagann is getting the same, thanks to the main character there. Both very angsty, which annoys me. I feel no obligation to go through with something that annoys me. I totally respect anyone who makes these things, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Also, respecting the creator is different from respecting the character. I can respect the creator of something while still hating the character.

That, I think, is what is important. Creators, not creations.
 
Even a poorly written character is important to a story. What I've been saying is that the sole reason all characters deserve respect is that, without one, the story isn't complete.

And not just characters, objects as well. If you've ever played the demo game for the RPG Maker 1, "Gobli", they state that even the non-interactable barrels at the shop are characters, and are just as important to the story as anything else.
 
Sephiroth7734;223798 said:
Even a poorly written character is important to a story. What I've been saying is that the sole reason all characters deserve respect is that, without one, the story isn't complete.

Sure, poorly written characters are important to a story, but probably not in a way that a game-maker or writer would want. They detract from the story, making it seem just as poorly thought-out and written as the character itself. This isn't something we should respect or strive for.

And not just characters, objects as well. If you've ever played the demo game for the RPG Maker 1, "Gobli", they state that even the non-interactable barrels at the shop are characters, and are just as important to the story as anything else.

Wait a minute there ... Are you saying that a little piece of rock that I placed on the path of one of my maps is just as essential to the story as the main hero?

Objects and other environmental factors can enhance the atmosphere of a story, but they don't make it. And they're not, by far, as essential to the story as great character development, excellent dialogue and a unique story twist.

--

The blanket statement that we should just respect characters regardless of how they are presented doesn't really help anyone.
How are people supposed to improve if any poorly written out concept is just important as one that's been patiently worked on for months?
How are players supposed to have likes and dislikes for characters if the very fact they exist means that they need to be respected?
For that matter, why bother developing a character at all if the fact alone that they have a graphic and a name is enough to have respect?

Honestly, your statements are like saying that the Mona Lisa and a picture of dog poop should be respected the same because their authors say that they're both visual art.
 
Okay... wait...

You're saying that if those guards outside of that one city in FFIX were important to the story?

What if they had removed them? Would you walk up to the city and go, "Well damn, there should be guards here or something. This game is clearly incomplete." I mean, when I see guards, I usually think "Oh hey, guards." I don't stop and contemplate the beauty of a rose. I don't wonder how the story of Abraham and Isaac somehow parallels Zidane's relationship with Kuja.

But let's take a step back for a second. What about the environs of another, hypothetical village.Two women are standing next to a well, and when you speak to one, she says, "It sure is hot today!" One could, I suppose, interpret this as being an important indicator of the weather. After all, a hot day could contribute to certain behaviors relevant to the story and the player's interaction with the world. But... What if every character in the village remarks about the weather in some way? What if the weather is already or repeatedly soundly established. This delegates this woman next to the well pretty soundly into the entirely inconsequential column on the galactic sorting chart of NPCs. Are you proposing that we stop to consider this woman's marriage, and take a moment aside to think about what a wonderful wife she must be to be fetching water, clearly for her husband? Maybe we are to conclude that women in this story really like water. That's important!

What if we removed one of these women? Would anyone but the creator know, or care? Would we be suddenly jarred to the unexpected realization that women like water in your RPG universe, far too late for the story to be saved?

But maybe you really mean the more important NPCs. Consider a character from Canadian Knights, Judge Pudge. Is judge Pudge important? Yes. Would you even notice if I flat-out removed Judge Pudge from the game? No. No you wouldn't. I could easily replace Judge Pudge with his daughter, Gillian, and you would never even know (if you hadn't read this post, that is). Oh sure, the scenes would play out differently and the jokes would need to be altered a bit, but we are talking about a small place between two stout brackets denoting a comparitively unimportant period of time in this universe. Everything outside those brackets remains entirely unchanged. Many RPGs are built from replaceable/moveable units like this. Not every unit can be removed, but many can.

Not every NPC changes the world, as you suggest. Remember, the only impact a NPC has on the world is the impact the writer gives them, except for a few exceptions. That statue bust you can examine in the halls of the castle, the nun with second thoughts, hell, even the reoccuring Trish the Heckler, Canadian Knight's very own O'Aka (spelling?), are ultimately only as important as their role in the story. If we removed Trish, the shopping dynamic would be changed, and a lot of good comedy would hit the cutting room floor, but this could, in fact, be an improvement.

I'm a writer of non-stop rhetoric. I talk a lot in life and I type a lot online. Recently, I wrote a research paper on ADHD. It had a strict maximum word count of 3000 words, and mine was 3900+. I had to make some tough cuts, but in the process of losing a lot of points even I felt were very important, the end result was much more efficient and concise.

There is such a thing as baggage. I've been trying to write a book for almost 8 years now, and while characters have come and gone, little else has changed thematically. The setting is still the same, and many characters go on as though nothing has changed. Is it bad writing that the outright removal of a major character leaves but a ripple in the overall work? No, I don't think so. Now, if I removed the hero, things would change. That mechanic guy? Yeah, I like him, and he had a lot of use in developing other characters, but in the end there are different ways of doing things.

Hell, I removed some of these characters based on feedback from friends. "I don't like the anthropomorphic rabbit character with no arms who uses his ears like fists!" Well, I thought about this. I thought about the arguements. I realized that the story could go on without him, and would probably benefit from it, so there he went.

Is this story incomplete? Yes. But that has nothing to do with the removal of a giant rabbit.

Your opinion or theory or whatever here flies in the face of the concept of revision, and critique. "Sorry man, I don't like all the furries in your game." "RACIST!" No, that doesn't fly.

Some character just plain suck and need to go to make the story BETTER. Some characters, even major character, need to be removed - need to be critisized - for a story to be complete.
 

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