Annoying Characters

[Crystalgate]

Often (like in Xenogears) where it seems so obvious that the villain is an idiot, that if you realize at the end that YOU were the idiot the whole time for thinking such simple things could really describe the entire situation.

Really? I haven't played Xenogears, but I can't think of any other RPG where that have happened either.


Anyway, on the subject of what kind of characters that annoys me, I have not found any example that isn't without exceptions. Even when it comes to the damsel in distress type, the ones I usually despise the most, there are cases where the damsel in distress didn't annoy me.

What I have found is often a problem when I dislike a character is that my interpretation of the character poorly matches the writers intention. Basically, a character I perceive as selfish is far less likely to annoy me if the writer actually did intend to for that character to be selfish than if that wasn't the intention at all. The same things goes if the character is supposed to have a trait that I just can't see, say the character is described as intelligent, but I can't find anything intelligent about that character at all.

 

[Bogus]

@Dyre

Oh good. I thouht I was the only one who LOATHED Tidus. I played about 5 hours into FFX before I was like. "I can't take any more of this stupid bullcrap." So it sits; in a box. I read a plot spoiler and went on wtih my life. The first time I heard him whine I about lost it. I could go on for like several more paragraphs but I'll spare you. -_-

I played the entire game, once. I played for Auron and for Lulu. Those were well developed characters. Auron may have had the mystery appeal, but it was explained through flashbacks, which were well done I might add, and he was just a badass. Lulu was the stoic yet lovable and mother-like figure that I adored, and the contrast of her personality and the dolls she used to cast magic was a nice touch. Then there was the flavor of Rikku...as cliche' as she was, I liked her, and the steam-punk feel of the Al Bhed. If not for the supporting characters, that game would have bombed. Much like FFVIII, where Laguna and Co. were more interesting than the main characters...but never mind that.

To anyone who believes Tidus was realistic, you'll need to give me an example of realism. I do not believe that everyone would have reacted to his situation the way he did. Whining, while realistic for some, is not to me. Especially not if I'm supposed to be playing this character, liking this character, and not wanting the little bastard to die. He was the main character, and therefore what the entire game was riding on. If a player cannot stand your main character, you have lost a player. I could not relate to him, and just as it is with books, and movies your audience needs to be able to relate in some way to the main character. If not, you need something there to keep them reading/watching/playing...FFX had supporting characters and a nice religious conflict to keep some playing. The game was not awful, but I have yet to replace the copy of mine that was destroyed in an accident...and that says something.


Oh and just because, I haven't finished Xenogears (I was deprived of games at an early age, heh) but from what I have seen it is an incredible game. Albeit a bit long-winded, it's interesting and the characters and story are well-developed. If anyone needs an example of a well done RPG, there it is. Xenosaga doesn't hold a candle to it's predecessor...especially since they botched the story in the sequels (so I hear, too scared to play them).

 

[Anaryu]

That's right, I wouldn't be annoyed if a race of eco-friendly-super-reptiles vilains came around to rid the world of humans because they're killing the planet.

But I would be annoyed if a human, morally strong character sticks with the bad guy for no reason. For instance, Ray from Bof II, who was all for helping the world, yet didn't realise that St.Eva was sucking the soul out of everyone.

Also, and this is more gameplay-related, I hate it when, after defeating a vilain, they still end up winning, ruining the two hours quest you've been doing. For instance, you've been around the world for 5 hours, finally getting your legendary item, and at the exit of the dungeon, some random bumps into you, gets you into a fight, and after you win, they throw a smoke bomb and steal your item...

Now that I think about it, your example here, the "Villain that never loses" is actually probably my biggest annoyance. I hate beating down a bad guy, only to have them go "Oh, I wasn't really trying, now I'm going to win and you don't even get to do anything about it! Just like I always do."

I don't think it's the characters usually that annoy me so much as the situations they're thrown into; although some characters fill annoying roles and as such are annoying, which I find to actually be a good thing!

 

[kyleblakely42]

Yet again @dyre

I've played a ton of RPG's, and haven't played Xenogears. Maybe I'll give it a play thourgh. That and Arc the Lad.

Agreed. I never even bought a copy. Haha.

Okay, the only annoying Characters that immediately come to mind are as follows:

Yuna (FFX)
Seymour (FFX)
Caitsith (FFVII) [Although I still like him]
Sora (KH)

What? Caitsith? Blasphemy. -_-

 

[Anonymous]

Nice double post. >.<

Am I really in the minority not thinking Tidus or Yuna was annoying?

Honestly, the FF characters I really can't stand and wish would die are Quina and Gau. They just push all my buttons. Stupid, bad dialog, keep coming back even if you don't want them to, useless unless you spend immense amounts of time with them, weak, utterly 2-dimensional. I think that about sums it up.

 

[Rye]

You aren't the only one in the minority, I actually loved Tidus and Yuna. >.>
I don't find myself annoyed by characters themselves, just how they interact in whatever situation they are in.

 

[Sol_Fury]

Now that I think about it, your example here, the "Villain that never loses" is actually probably my biggest annoyance. I hate beating down a bad guy, only to have them go "Oh, I wasn't really trying, now I'm going to win and you don't even get to do anything about it! Just like I always do."

Yeah, I hate that too. It wouldn't be so bad, even, if they somehow managed to pull off the win, say, through guile, by snatching up a weapon and grabbing some innocent bystander then forcing the heroes to hand over what they were fighting over for the life of the innocent. Or an ally could leap into the fray, sure they could have done it before but you can get around that with a comment like "you could have done that ten minutes ago / would you rather I just left you to die here?"
Point is, you can get around that with some decent writing and thought. Just don't make a habit of it. I find that to be as much a turn-off as the villain just getting up again. Like any plot device, a deus ex machina is best used sparingly, or it will lose its impact.

 

[kaze950]

If you have to fight the villain early on for story purposes, I like the "Fight you can't win and in three turns enemy does big attack that kills the entire party" better than "Fight you do win, but the enemy still doesn't get defeated"

 

[creiz]

Anyone played Grandia 2???

Elena?

'nuff said. I think she's the worst character in the whole game universe, lemmings included.

 

[Sol_Fury]

If you have to fight the villain early on for story purposes, I like the "Fight you can't win and in three turns enemy does big attack that kills the entire party" better than "Fight you do win, but the enemy still doesn't get defeated"

Or even just have a battle event so the enemy is invincible and you end the battle when they hit 0 HP. That way you've still got to fight the enemy like a normal battle, but when you get to the end, they're still standing. They take the best that you can dish out, but they're still standing. Wild Arms does that a lot with its recurring villains and I think it works pretty well. After all, you don't actually beat them that way, but the fight isn't so constrained, either.

I think the best, though, might be a mix of both. You don't want to use either too much, and you certainly could do better than rely on just the one device.

 

[iceshiva]

There are, however, certain types of characters that annoy me. What I find absolutely frustrating are vilains (or NPCs, or heroes, or whatever), who remain absolutely convinced they are doing the right thing, despite having been given a hundred evidences to the contrary by the heroes.

Me too. Actually this mostly applies to TV shows I've watched where the conflict was due to the antagonist misinterpreting the protagonist's actions. And then there will be that one really annoying scene where they confront each other and the dialogue goes like these:

Enemy: Don't talk to me, how could you betray me like this!! Blah-blah...
Lead: Uhhh-ohh...let me try to explain...it's not what you think it is..
Enemy: Oh please, I don't need to listen to your excuses.
Lead: Please listen to me...let me explain!
Enemy: Shut up, I don't want to talk to you ever again.
Lead: Huhuhuhu

And then they'd be enemies for life. Except at the end of the story where the antagonist will then have a change of heart. Or s/he'll die horribly.

 

[CorporateGreed]

Anyone played Grandia 2???

Elena?

'nuff said. I think she's the worst character in the whole game universe, lemmings included.

Hell yeah. Although, I must admit, her being

Spoiler

Millenia as well

made up for it. You can't expect elena to be less than the complete opposite.

Also, as for the Tidus and Yuna stuff...

What? I couldn't help but read about people whining over the fact that they
could not relate to the character in the game. I really fail to see the point.

'If you cannot relate to the character you're playing, you have lost a player.'
This would irrevocably mean that all characters need the same basis and
need a bit of all *possible* personalities, just so that EVERYONE can relate
to them. All you need is a bit of fantasy. It's not THAT hard to imagine what
it would be like to be in his position. And I'm sorry if you think he's gay.
Not everyone is as 'cool' like you.

Annoying? A little. But not more than Elena from Grandia II, and I loved her
because of it. Same goes for the little whinebag of a Sue from Grandia I

 

[Princess Shine]

There's a difference between a character having some level of accessibility, and being totaly in left-field. You know people who are total, unjustifiable jerks, and you know people who seem to be mean, but you know they're nice, on some level. It's not "make everyone the same," because the ability to relate to a person isn't measurable. It's more like, "Have a character with enough depth that if they're still that unredeemingly annoying, there's a reason for it."

Millenia doesn't really redeem Elena, I think, given that there's such a large gap between Mil's "fun", and Elena's ability to invoke feelings of sheer disgust in me. (The contrast is nice, but she was made to be a prick, and I think I'd always love how outrageous Millenia gets.) Ryudo did balance it out, for most of the game, because he made fun of her. He validated my dislike of Elena, that I wasn't the only person who thought she was a prick. Ryudo held the game together for about 3/4 of the way, then got mushy, and everything fell apart. If the annoying is completely intentional, I don't have an issue. I see that, and try to like the character anyway. It's when you're wondering, "Am I supposed to like him? He seems awful, but isn't he supposed to be XXXXXXX?"

I don't like characters that seem to be forced upon you. That's annoying. Let's take Tear, from Tales of the Abyss. As much as I adore her weakness for cute things, the writers went beyond overboard with her bizarre misfortunes. It wasn't supposed to be funny, but because she wavered so oddly between hardass and "destined-love-interest-mode," I started pointing at the screen and yelling "Die bitch, die!" each time she flopped over.

On one hand, I'm weird like that, but it's still a matter of the writers trying too hard.

 

[Bogus]

Princess Shine said what I should have, the ability to relate to a person is not measurable. Tidus had no depth, which is why I found him annoying. I need to care about a character and it takes at least some depth to do that.
The other characters made up for it, and to clarify...I liked Yuna in FFX, just not what they made her into when they tried to make a sequel.

I have an ongoing argument with my husband everytime I play FFIX, I like Quinna. Not because of her character, or personality (as there is not much of one) but her usefulness. Teach her Level 5 Death and power-level on Ruby Dragons. I thought it was funny that they made this character that they probably knew no one would like much and then gave her the possibility of becoming uber powerful to temp you into using her anyway. It doesn't make up for lack of depth, but you only really 'need' her in one situation so it's not a big deal.

I liked all the FFIX characters...especially Vivi, but all of them were well done characters, and the love interest was not the type of princess who cannot do anything on her own that I've become so used to seeing. Garnet had an amazing amount of depth, and I loved her. The game really was about everyone, there was no real main character. It went back to the basics and felt much like FFVI for me, which was another awesome game with incredible depth and characters who actually made you care about them.

FFIX is still the only game to ever make me cry...I couldn't help but care about everyone, and I get teary eyed every time I play through it. The writing in that game was amazing and I would love to see more RPGs like it.

Good writing, and well-developed supporting characters can make up for a few annoying bits, and even a few plot holes. Take FFVIII for example...time compression anyone? Makes me laugh every time I hear it...oh what a silly plot twist. I kept playing it though, for the characters' reactions to the situation, and for the hope that there would be another flashback sequence with Laguna...he was neat. = )

 

[kyleblakely42]

Sorry about the double post earlier. I think my brain was like Yaaay! and having a party outside of my head.

What? You LIKED quinna? He/she? didn't even say anything except things that started wtih Q, and only provided frustrating side quests involving catching frogs. And was horrible. I guess I didn't pay enough attention to her, but I thought Vivi, Stiener, and Amarant were like 2389579375x more useful.

 

[Doctor]

Good writing, and well-developed supporting characters can make up for a few annoying bits, and even a few plot holes. Take FFVIII for example...time compression anyone? Makes me laugh every time I hear it...oh what a silly plot twist. I kept playing it though, for the characters' reactions to the situation, and for the hope that there would be another flashback sequence with Laguna...he was neat. = )

If you dig into the whole Rinoa = Ultimecia theory, the game can take up a few new plot twists... Aaaanyway...

What I also find annoying is the "It was my plan all along" kind of villain, a subtype of the "even if you defeat them, they still win" villain. Take Kuja from FFIX, you defeat him fair and square in battle, and he goes "No, that was my plan all along to lose and go in trance!" Or what about Wesker from Resident Evil. The Tyrant kills him, and later on he reappears going "It was my plan all along to die and be reborn with new powers!".

It gets especially frustrating, especially in RPGs, when you find out that the entire game was "the villain's plan all along", which prompt to ask the question: "Who can possibly have this much foresight?"

 

[CorporateGreed]

There's a difference between a character having some level of accessibility, and being totaly in left-field. You know people who are total, unjustifiable jerks, and you know people who seem to be mean, but you know they're nice, on some level. It's not "make everyone the same," because the ability to relate to a person isn't measurable. It's more like, "Have a character with enough depth that if they're still that unredeemingly annoying, there's a reason for it."

yeah, but I was talking about Tidus and Yuna. I can somewhat relate to them,
or at least understand why it is that they act that way. It's a matter of
personality I guess, and I'm good in placing myself in anothers shoes.

What they did to Yuna in FFX-2 is unforgivable however.

Also, why oh why do you hate Elena so... It's not her fault she's so... extremist ':|

 

[Doctor]

I don't know why people find Yuna and Tidus so annoying. I thought they were fine characters. Sure, the voice acting was a bit weak sometimes, but the characters themselves were good.

Same for Final Fantasy X-2. It was meant to be a lot lighter than FFX, you couldn't have Yuna brooding all over the place. I, personally, am glad they made her a lighter character. After all, she saved the world, she's travelling the world with her best friends, and, guess what, her dead lover MIGHT not be dead after all.

And by the way, FFX-2 did NOT ruin FFX's ending. if you wait until after FFX's credit, you'll find out Tidus was meant to return all along... at least, that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Sol_Fury]

What I also find annoying is the "It was my plan all along" kind of villain, a subtype of the "even if you defeat them, they still win" villain. Take Kuja from FFIX, you defeat him fair and square in battle, and he goes "No, that was my plan all along to lose and go in trance!" Or what about Wesker from Resident Evil. The Tyrant kills him, and later on he reappears going "It was my plan all along to die and be reborn with new powers!".

I don't mind that kind of villain. Kuja, for example, knew that it took extreme stress / near defeat conditions to bring out Trance, so he ran with it and basically used you beating him up to wake up his Trance mode. That's my opinion anyhow.

What I think would be an interesting twist on this trend though would be if a villain planned to do this sort of thing, but something goes wrong and perhaps he actually, genuinely dies. I'd love to see that happen some time.

In fact, why not have the villains plans occasionally go wrong? Why should bad luck be solely aimed at the hero when it comes to evil plots? Not only will it make the villain seem more human (nobody is perfect nor infallible after all), but it would also give you a chance to show how well the villain thinks on his feet. I don't think I have ever seen a villain have things go against them like that, actually. I can think of a couple of occasions, but they're usually harbingers of the villain's death, which isn't such a great thing.

 

[kaze950]

Well, sometimes in RPGs the villains plans will go wrong...but usually only at the very end of the game.